TOPIC: [DENIED] [ZARP] Christopher Tier 1 Warning Request

Name - What is the accused person's name?

[ZARP] Christopher

STEAM-ID - What is the accused person's STEAM-ID?

STEAM_0:1:41106947


Reason - What rules did the person break?

He needlessly muted a person who was just asking a question about the rules, then when I informed him of the error of his ways, he disagreed and asked me to take it to the forums, which I am doing.

Story - What happened?

A guy called 'manhunter' asked in the OOC whether it was against the rules to block with a camera, i was ready to the answer the guy and typed my answer in to tell him, When [ZARP] Christopher said to him that he should use F1 for admin requests, i don't believe this was a worthy admin request, as he was simply asking whether you were allowed to block with a camera, i believe admin behavior like this will discourage people from playing on the server if admins are as unfriendly and unwilling to help as Chris was on this occasion.

Proof - Any proof on a video/screenshot that clearly show what happened.

Yes, the following link shows screenshots of the muting, the reason for the muting, and the full conversation between the gentleman and myself.

http://imgur.com/a/mMzR6

Server - What server was this on?

3|ZARP|DarkRP|

Time and date (GMT) -

It was around 2pm GMT 04/04/13

Other comment - Anything else you want to add?

If Christopher had have unmuted the guy as I had requested then this wouldn't be happening, he asked me to take it the forums so i have.

Looks like SPAM, but im not sure, so i will give neutral.

Bobiii wrote:
I don't understand how saying 'Wow, Cam Block' and then 'Is cam block breaking server rules?' is spamming? Two posts is not spam.

The messages were both in all upper case.

If he did read the rules, he'd know that regardless of what type of issue, he can't use OOC.
Zart wrote:
This is mainly to ensure:

• People WITH requests don't feel that others are being put before them
• People trying to roleplay don't have to put up with messages.

The incident was also a mild "Metagame" as he used OOC for a RP related issue. If he DID eventually use F1, it would have been responded to and he would have been un muted from there, else he could have continued to spam the OOC.

The ban request is obsolete, as I justified the mute to you, and if he felt that the mute was invalid, he could have

I feel a mute on this guy was unneeded, but still, Chris actually just did his job. He should probably have warned the guy first, but whatever, it's really not that big of a deal.

[size=360:apk4nefg]-SUPPORT[/size]

I will use the quote you have used in your comment Christopher.


If you read what the guy said, he didn't ask for an admin's help, he asked everyone. AKA The general populous of the server, you gave no warning, when asked about the mute, you said it was because he didn't use the F1 channel, so that throws the metagaming argument out of the window.

If you stop people asking game related questions that arn't that major such as this in the OOC then that will:

A. Clog up the admin requests with people asking mild questions such as 'How do i fill up my car?' or in this case 'Is blocking with a camera allowed?'
B. Stop the people who arn't admins helping. Even moderators can't see the F1 requests so that means when an Admin is not present on the server then small questions or Admin requests using F1 are not dealt with.
C. Stop people such as myself who arn't a moderator or admin do what they like to do, help people. I like nothing more than to help someone understand something or talk them through the process of doing something and see them suceed at the same process later.

Chris, don't take any of this personally, i just feel like you were wrong on this one.

JiminyBillyBob wrote:
It is still a question that can be answered by everyone - and that includes admins. Don't try to find loopholes, as he is still disturbing people who want to roleplay - and when you consider how tiny the chat box is and how much space two messages all in caps can take up, it IS distracting.

The mute was still valid in the form that he was told to use F1, the messages were all in upper case and they were meta gaming.

If he had a question and wanted to ask ANYONE, he could have used PM - but since he was still reporting something against the rules, it was an admin related issue.

Please, stop trying and failing to make a mountain out of a molehill. As I've already said, it's not just about the fact that he asked a question in OOC - his messages failed to comply with other rules equally.

He has a voice, and if he wanted to dispute the mute - he could have used F1.

JiminyBillyBob wrote:
It's our duty to help people with this. We always get questions such as this, and that's one of the reasons we DO have F1 - to deter people spamming questions in the OOC.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
Incorrect.
Whomever is your source to say that moderators can't see F1 requests needs to fix their eyesight.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
Then if you wish to help people, you should apply to become a moderator. It's good that you're trying to help people - but as the fact that the majority of our users do use the tools to contact us by the system, your offer for assistance will nine times out of ten be obsolete. People do use questions in OOC - but regardless, people who are obliged to use the nessecary systems will be frustrated if they see "Oh - he answered a question simmilar to mine"

[size=360:20i25z90]AND THE BIG THING:[/size]
This leads on to people refusing to use F1 in future, therefore making the problem worse.

The fact is that there were plenty of staff online to deal with that request - but plenty of users to be distracted by it. People trying to play the game don't want to hear it, and this is why people end up having to say "are you ignoring me? please tell me how much that costs!" because they don't even know that they responded through all the spam.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
For this I give you praise, but you are most definitely taking it the wrong way.

You have decided to take up someone else's mute, but you fail to understand how often we have to deal with people who spam questions in the OOC; not to mention how the offender decided to use upper case and metagame.

Christopher wrote:
That is exactly my point, it is a question that can be answered by the general populous of the server, so why shouldn't it be? Some of the general populous know the rules better than SOME mods and admins, so why shouldn't people be allowed to ask the people of the server a question of the gameplay.
Christopher wrote:
I haven't tried to find any loophole, there is nothing in the rules that says you can't ask the people of the server a question about the game, i've said it before and i'll say it again, if people start making F1 requests with silly questions like 'how do i fill up my car?' all the time, you'll go out of your mind.
Christopher wrote:
There is nothing in the rules that says you can't use upper case text in OOC, i've seen plenty of people do it and nobody has ever said anything. He was told to use F1, yes. But then instantly muted after being told, you also left this guy muted for 30 minutes, which is completely out of order, he had to relog so he could talk again.
Christopher wrote:
He wasn't reporting something against the rules, he was asking whether something was against the rules. You expect the guy to PM each individual member of the server 1 by 1 until he finds someone who knows the answer?

I don't see how requesting a Tier 1 warning is making a mountain of anything, requesting a ban or demote would have been making a mountain out of it, you discouraged the gentleman from playing upon the server, by needlessly muting him, and that is not the attitude i expect an admin to greet a simple question with.
You are the one who asked me to take it to the forums, so i have, so don't say i'm the one making a mountain out of anything.

I thought the F1 was for reporting a break of a rule, for example an RDM, CDM, break of NLR or things like that?

If this is not the case then I apologize.

I have applied to be a moderator, I try to answer any question that any member has in OOC about small things, and I also tell them to use F1 for more serious requests such as a rule break.

I still don't see how two posts is classed as spam.

Once again, i don't feel this guy spammed, which is what you explained the mute was for.

JiminyBillyBob wrote:
That's false - we DO get requests such as the one you aroused.

The thing is, we don't go out of our minds - that's why we put up with them. But then, the argument can be re used for the general public.

YOU might be a helpful person. Despite this, people who just want to roleplay will 'go out of their mind' if THEY see 'questions like "how do i fill up my car?"'
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
This is common sense. Even though you're attempting to deprecate my argument, the fact that he meta-gamed still exists.

We have no time for people who disregard the rules to ask admin related questions VIA OOC - now upon reflection of the messages, it DOES appear that he is asking a question, but as much as that argument is valid - I can say that he was reporting 'CAMERA BLOCK' within the first message. Other people have been muted for this, today, yesterday, weeks ago - and it WILL continue. It's out of order that they feel they should be entitled to answers more than anyone else.

We can not define mute times within our current administration interface. It is not 'completely out of order' - as the party who assisted the person, you may feel this - but that's your opinion. He had the ability to apologize and ask for an unmute.

People do get muted for the offenses he made, and if you want to contradict everyone else for this one person, it's a very un balanced view. Should you feel that this practice is un unnecessary, make a suggestion in the appropriate forum section - because otherwise this will be ongoing.

The likelihood is that by other members of the administrative body, people will have been kicked for this too. Good luck reporting other members of staff for each and every time this practice has been maintained - your keyboard would be broken by the time you'd finished.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
He's not supposed to PM every individual member of the server - that's exactly why I aroused the argument, because it is impractical. I'm saying that it's an admin related issue, and that's where he was supposed to get the help.

As I've already pointed out in this message, he DID report something against the rules just by saying the words:

...therefore the argument in its entirety it invalid.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
In terms, it still is an exaggeration of anything unnecessary. Considering issues like minging, this is very low priority and an extremely miniscule, if at all, (an) issue. What I'm trying to get at is the fact that plenty of other staff will have followed the practice before, and you're reporting the one you see first.

As much as I'd hate to say it, if he wants to leave the server, it isn't really an issue to us. But what he did, could have discouraged players from playing the server - someone who comes online and sees people caps-raging about "OH MY GOD HOW DO I DO THIS" "HOW DO I DO THAT" can easily be discouraged. He broke several rules, fair and square. He gets the punishment, which was a mute.

If you feel that this was a needless mute and a bad discipline of an admin, then you've got a LOT of people to speak to. Mutes are nothing, and pretty much anyone who decides to appeal them gets un muted - on the basis that we can't set timeframes for them.

The main fail in your report is that, as much as the mute MAY WELL HAVE BEEN abrupt to a small degree, people unlike yourself who wish to play the server without questions being spammed, and don't want to help, would disagree with your request - and unfortunately in a democratic environment, the majority vote wins.

And that's what the basis of this practice is from, the fact that the people who are there to help are staff, and the people who are there to play are users. Big segregation.

As much as you were there to help, and you did - the player was still muted for breaking the rules, and if we haven't yet established, the violations in those two tiny messages included: spam, disturbance of the OOC, failure to use F1 to report an admin related issue, upper case chat

• Spam
• Disturbance of OOC
• Failure to use F1 to report an admin related issue
• Upper case chat

The fact that he DID accuse someone of camera blocking means that the issue becomes an admin related issue, until you can prove to me that you can go there and remove it.
JiminyBillyBob wrote:
I suggested it, whilst also inferring shallowly that it's not something to be so worried about - especially when it wasn't against you and he may well have agreed to the mute.

Generally, I never "promoted" that you should do it - I just wanted you to stop spamming up the OOC for the greater good of those who are roleplaying, which is what this entire argument relates to.

http://i.imgur.com/ztSULk8h.jpg

JiminyBillyBob wrote:
No. We will (attempt to our greatest extent to) assist ANYONE who has ANY issue. Stuff that isn't citated on the official documentations about the server (basically JUST limited to the rules) are included within this, because they aren't sure. Questions about the rules are best dealt with by a moderator/administrator - as they can well lead on to dealing with an issue,

Christopher, I fully take on board the points you have made in the thread, and in the majority I agree, when I created this post I didn't think it would ever be accepted, I just felt like it was an issue that needed to be raised.

I understand that an admins duty is to help people, I just don't like to see people be dealt with hastily and maybe not be given the full fulfillment of the potential of the server and felt that the person may potentially miss out on the true aspect of the [ZARP] experience due to him being muted.

I feel you should have warned the fellow first if you felt he was clogging up the OOC with his two posts, and infact, the muting caused more of a problem in OOC than it solved, partly due to myself, but also from when the guy rejoined and kept asking in OOC why was i muted, you left me muted for 30 minutes, i had to relog and various posts like this.

I think you took my part about a more 'serious' request in the wrong context, F1 requests of course should be dealt in chronological order, but I just feel that posting questions such as the one that the guy was muted for as an F1 request is a misuse of the service. Also, not allowing users to ask simple questions in OOC discourages some of the OOC socialization that makes [ZARP] such a good place to play.

JiminyBillyBob wrote:
Sure. Let people ask their questions in OOC, deprecating the need for prioritization and equal rights to assistance - and let those who are frustrated by the distractions in roleplay suffer.

He missed out on the ZARP experience because he broke the rules. It's a punishment.

The fact that I've punished several others for this today means that he's no different, and a mute was very much appropriate as it prevents him from continuing such as some other individuals decided it would be clever to do, and that people don't see him 'getting off lightly' - even moreso for those people waiting for a request to be answered because of a queue.

It's disgusting, because I've seen people ask things in OOC and a mod has teleported to them to assist them, meanwhile, in this particular example, a person decided to speak up and ask why people are being prioritized.

When the person joins the game, they click a button that says they have read and accepted the rules - for this individual, they obviously haven't - and all it would have taken regardless of if they'd read the rules or not, is to say "Yo - I'm sorry for what I did, please unmute me" and then it would be over.

People who are trying to roleplay miss out because,

Think the mute was maybe to quick, but he did his job, maybe a verbal warning but not a tier 1 warning -support

FellaN wrote: I agree with Fellan, Chris did the right thing but perhaps it was executed to quickly. Anyhow Chris is a great admin/guy so nothing should be done here -support

DENIED Everyone can do small mistakes. And Chris is a good guy I know that.