TOPIC: [ALL] Hacking Policy Change

lMichaell wrote: Now you have to provide them with the anti cheat screenshot first and then ask them if they are hacking.

lMichaell wrote:
How bad is it to give someone just one chance?

_Max wrote:
In my opinion it depends for how long they have been hacking.

_Max wrote: In the case of cheating, not bad at all. They do it knowing full well what they are doing and what they are doing is trying to gain an advantange with impossible abilitys that are not found within the normal game.

_Max wrote: Seeming that you don't even play the game, you develop and staff most of the time, you have no idea how annoying it is to have a hacker ruin the game and they should be straight up banned for it. Look how VAC works, but at ZARP it just slips by and some even continue to hack after a warning is given. What's the actual harm in straight up perm banning them until they appeal and apologise for the disruptive game play they had caused by cheating. At least they can appeal it unlike a VAC ban, so i think we're being a bit too kind to cheaters.

Imagine this also, if i were to be a user and used hacks for a long time and eventually got caught, imagine all of the game play i have ruined for the people who played legitimately and manage to get off the hook by only receiving a kick.. it's totally unfair and should be changed.

Major games that receive large volumes of hackers are much more lenient than we are so why should we be harsh. On GTA you get 3 chances.

_Max wrote: Actually they stick all cheaters in a game with each other as the first chance so they can all suck each others bums and then a ban.

_Max wrote: On zarp you get unlimited as you have the ability to appeal every ban you receive.

_Max wrote: CSGO you get one chance. We want to be that way on GMOD ZARP, not give 3 chances like GTA. A second chance, im fine with that if they apologise to the community after having their permanent ban placed and spend time off to reconsider their actions rather than just a single kick/warning. Its just straight up ridiculous how so many people hack and get away with it so easily.

AA RFLeX wrote: What RFlex said is 100%, users are given infinite chances here but on EVERY other game it's a few chances and you never come back no matter what.

lMichaell wrote: Yep basicly. The policy came from FP and was started by myself and two other head admins at the time. When Chute first introduced the AC as it is today, we found an extreme amount of players were hacking (surprise surprise). But instead of outright banning all the players we decided that the best use of the new power would be to confront the guilty. Give them an chance to own up and admit to their mistake or face a permanent ban for their actions. Now this has and in my option continues to be the best system to deal with this. Granted this was before the requirement to provide them the proof first was added. Personally I prefer not giving it to them and instead inform them they are hacking. Instruct them to remove their hacks and rejoin the server, if they deny that I would call them dumb and give them a simple ultimatum admit right now to hacking or get a perma ban. In my mind that tends to keep people more honest as I have seen plently of people just man up an admit it when caught. Showing it to them first makes them of course less liky to deny it but I don't know if thats necessarily the best thing. I would feel much better about someone admiting something to me if they could't see my proof first, it just feels like that is way more honest.

But outright just banning the player and telling them to appeal is a piss poor way to deal with the problem. We still may want those players to still play on the server. Of course without hacking. But I have seen plenty of people reform after being confronted who still play ZARP to this day. Obviously as Max said they get that one chance. Any further hacking infractions lead to an instant perma ban and or demotion. Thats probaly one of the largest reasons we give a warning first. That way if they chose to not listen to the warning they will be banned and wont get off easy.
Grand Wizowd wrote: Well I bet your pretty happy that we arnt like other games right. Otherwise you would think after 13 forum bans we would have just left you community banned right?

Edit:
Oh snap 1300 posts

Lemme read EMP's post god damn it

Smoking hot EMP.

Anyhow, personally I agree and disagree with your points, I feel that maybe if you confront them, and they straight up admit to hacking, and SAY THEY WILL CHANGE, then they should get another chance, but not straight up "admit to hacking dude you won't get banned"

I feel that is too lenient, I also feel providing proof that they hacked is ridiculous, when they should change right there and then, instead of changing after they get proven wrong.

lMichaell wrote: The way I always have done it is to first ask them why they are hacking if they deny it then we get into the part about the ultimatum. Now you would maybe assume at that point they would know the jig is up and admit to avoid the ban. Especially when we specifically tell them if they admitted they won't get banned. Even then I have still seen plently of people keep trying to lie and they ass gets straight on the ban list.

EMP wrote:
Well I mean you're right but I was talking more about cheating..

EMP wrote:
Prime example of the current system being exploited is Walter White who was given plenty of bans and kicks for hacking but that only helped him improve on how to not get caught and wasted loads of hours from head admins who were spectating him and trying to catch him. As said previously they will still have the chance to appeal their ban.

I feel like you don't quite understand what it is your talking about. What your describing with Walter would have happend the same way if they system you proposed was in effect. Sure the first time he was caught he would have gotten banned but that would have been irrelevant, as he would have waited and appealed the ban. Im pretty sure in between two of his pretty long hacking bans he had enough time to build up trust and get admin again. So I don't see how that example remotely correlates to what's being discussed here.

ZARP has and will continue to provide chances to individuals who show us they deserve it and you know what for the most part people tend to take those chances seriously. This is why ZARP is one of the largest and most active Garry's mod Communities. Because unlike those other games we simply can't afford to perma ban every hacker we see and never let them come back. We would be just like all the other shitty communities out their. Dead.
Grand Wizowd wrote: Your right but the point I was trying to make is nonetheless the same. ZARP is all about giving people chances to improve them selves. If they abuse that and betry our trust they can still get another chance to change. It just might take longer.

As much as I agree with you EMP, I also have to disagree with you, respectably.
- The reason Zarp has so many hackers that is has, is because examples are not being set. For all I know I could go download hacks now, and until I get busted, (which I never will, if I use triggerbot and hide it the best way possible), then basically IF I get busted after hacking for 5 months, I will just say I'm sorry, and I will never do it again, and get another chance.
That's why examples has to be set, I remember the Walter White incident, he was caught hacking 3-4 times I believe? He kept getting new chances, because he knew he would keep getting unbanned. I've seen many cases of people hacking in the past, receiving a warning, and then hacking again. I strongly believe that if Zarp changed their policy, and literally state that cheating is a perm ban, that would change a lot of the cheaters in Zarp.

* In response to Max. -
Yeah, one of the Cm has been cheating in the past, however I believe this was a bhop script that was being used? Something that barely ruined other peoples rp, there is a big difference imo. Running around using aimbot to your advantage, beats bhop script any day. Sure give people using bhop script another chance, but if you have the audacity to go and download aimbot/wallhack BY YOUR OWN WILL, and then using that in a god damn Garry's Mod server, then imo. You dont deserve another shot.

That's just my opinion tho.

EMP wrote: I never suggested instantly denying all appeals that have to do with hacking. Like in game everyone has another chance but this way they actually have to prove to us that they deserve one.

I would like everyone to voice your opinions about this as its a Major suggestion on the zarps policy and will change the way on how we deal hackers on all Zarp Servers!