|
Login to ZARP
|
|
TOPIC: [TTT Suggestion] Rule change
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285308
|
Regarding the Earlier Reply
[ [ Spoiler removed to avoid redundancy ] ]
Coming into this suggestion I sat down and took the time to fully read about the issue that Firelord Ozai presented. What he thought was wrong and why he thinks a change should be made. At the time I agreed with his statements and I still at the moment of writing this. I happened to know that some people can be very good at missing obvious details and I knew of a story that I could use as an example about why the rule is flawed. I worked it out, told the story then made an attempt to explain why I thought the rule had its flaws and why it should be changed. There are some things I may miss, and there are a couple of details that I don't know about and I'll do my best as always to make things as clear as possible, I wouldn't wanna mislead anyone or misquote something. If something is misquoted or a mistake was made people are free to point those out. It seems I had missed my mark in making clear that it was merely an example. Some people seem to have gotten a tad bit touchy about my last reply and my apologies if it upset anyone, however, as I will explain below the Among Us comparison served as no more but an example of people being blind on occasion, something that was part of my argument then, and still it is now. And yes, for the record I am aware of the differences. I will be taking Davido007's comment and disassemble it piece by piece. It seems there are some misconceptions that I'd like to clear up before making a second attempt at expressing my thoughts about the issue.
Clarification (Disassembly of Davidov's Comment)
From reading your comment, it is quite obvious to tell that you do not have knowledge of the rules, or TTT at all, which I didn't expect coming from you, considering your comments are usually well-written. I'm sorry to disappoint, however, to set a level playing field, yes I do know the rules in TTT and yes I have played plenty of it before. I usually actually have some level of knowledge of what I'm talking about and if I do not I'll do my best to do research into it before writing my posts.All things aside I make it clear that I put effort into what I do. I don't just randomly ramble on, I actually think about what I write and take into consideration the info I have and the info I do not have. I did not deem it necessary to place a disclaimer about the missing info as I thought it unnecessary in the presented situation. The flaw of your argument, as Nepgear mentioned, comes from the fact that you're comparing a chaotic clusterfuck of a "murder-game", Among Us, to a very well-refined and old Garry's Mod gamemode, TTT, which has many, many different situations, rules and laws, one of which is the fact that walking over an unidentified body gets you shot. I do agree! Perhaps my method of writing wasn't clear enough, I in no way meant to compare TTT to Among Us as a whole, I intended to state clearly that within one game (Among Us) the contrast of the playing field is much greater than in TTT. In Among Us we're dealing with brightly coloured heavily upscaled assets which stand out pretty much everywhere.Whilst in TTT the bodies are usually smaller you might see only a single foot which can be missed or colours might blend in very well together giving a natural feeling to what is on your screen. Possibly leading to you not noticing a body. Granted, I don't know how different it may be now compared to years ago, however, I can imagine that would extend to some people in ZARP have missed plenty of bodies before. Among Us is a party game without any real rules, its focus is trying to figure out what the hell is going on and it is vastly different from TTT. Of course, there will be people that stand on a corpse, not reporting it, ending up in them getting thrown out, probably upsetting them (and instantly leaving, as everyone does). Well, why does this happen? Because they're new, and there's literally no official information about how you're meant to play, as the playstyle comes from the player base itself from unspoken rules. TTT is vastly different from Among Us, but as I stated above I never meant to compare the two directly. The two share a situation (failing to identify/report a body). And it served to state that in one game the bodies are much harder to miss than in the other - if someone is capable of missing a body in a game where sprites are huge, and colours contrast very well then they can miss a much smaller corpse that can be hidden, and or one that more easily blends in with the environment.
Point There will always be people that miss the obvious even if the answer is right in front of them.
TTT, on the other hand, has pages of rules, information threads and so on. It is a completely invalid and weak argument that "a new player might pass an unidentified body without knowing they'll get killed for it", as the very first thing you should do when joining a gamemode/server you're unfamiliar with (I'm sure this is known to be true globally), is read the rules. I hate to burst your bubble, but you'd be surprised how many people don't do this. (it is A LOT) But! That is their own fault. I'm not gonna sit here and defend those kinds of people, it is a choice each individual makes at the start of their journey into a server.And yeah! You are totally right. A quick search shows plenty of threads about how to play and I'm sure that when it comes down to it that a person who plays on TTT would not mind sitting down with a new player and go over them and explain to them how to play. That is great!
Though I'm unsure where this came from
"a new player might pass an unidentified body without knowing they'll get killed for it"
If you did not somehow pull that argument from my comment then think about where you put things, contextually wise it reads as if you were claiming I said it ...the server constantly reminds players in the text chat about the rules, which they can access via "!rules". Doing so would have given them plenty of insight on what gets them KOSed and what doesn't. It is, indeed, the player's fault if they fail to do a very basic and simple action, which is identifying bodies. I had more written here but decided to reformat it so that it makes more sense based on what I wrote above. The server reminds people and that is a great thing, it makes sure that people know what is accessible and yeah I do agree there's more than enough insight. I had stated as such in the paragraph above, however, that's not the whole point.While I agree the player is to blame for not reporting a body it is different in my eyes when they did not see the body they should've reported. Some people miss out the most obvious of things and the rule as it stands can be used to KOS that person, I'll go into more detail about why this may be a problem later.
With that Aside Now on Topic
Time for a little experiment, I'll be giving you two scenarios which are spoiler quite similar. I'd love for those who are against (or for) the rule change to answer these questions to themselves. These scenarios are just there to see what you would do in the shoes of both the victim and the perpetrator in the event his suggestion seeks to avoid. All choices (except the 4th in each) have a spoiler attached with a comment on each of the options explaining how I feel about them. They are my opinion, however, so feel free to disregard those.
Let's review with this Situation:
Player A sees you move past a corpse that from your point of view you can not even see, whether it be a missing model, be hidden behind a tree, or just out of your field of view, and he calls a KOS on you for failure to identify a body.
What is your response?
What does a player need to do in the following situation?
Player A was to walk towards the tester passing by a body on the way that was behind a tree in such a way they didn't see it. And you happened to witness that from a different angle, one where you think he could see the body and see him pass by.
Way I see it: People appear to be abusing the rule in its current state and this should not be possible. A change has to be made. Any person that leaves the server never to come back because people are loopholing is a loss for the server which no one would want to happen. I feel that changing the rule, however, maybe a bit complicated looking into it further and reading into the points that some others presented. I feel that a possible better solution would be to add a log that involves eye tracers. If a person looks at a body that is unidentified that should be logged so that staff have a tool to see whether or not someone genuinely did not see a body or whether a player is calling KOS-es just to have an excuse to RDM. To be most fair that tracer should be delayed until they have looked at it for at least half a second, it should not log more than once (it'll spam it if does), only log if they are close enough to see the 'unidentified corpse' text appear, and it should state whether or not it was identified by them afterwards. It may not be a foolproof solution but anything to help would be nice to have I imagine. This issue is clearly a real issue if someone is willing to write a suggestion over it to change it. It is a way to bring to attention the problem you face and you shouldn't try to shove it off, rather try to help resolve it. The thing I put above here (the log) is merely a suggestion on how it could be done, but the TTT Staff Team must have some inventive people than myself who can come up with way betters solutions for the problem. Just keep in mind I'm not your enemy here, I merely am trying to press on how much of an issue this can be and am trying to help avoid it from becoming a big issue.
Counterpoints
Whilst looking at this from both perspectives I can see points that would stand against the rule change, though they may be against what I would prefer to happen I'll still point some of them out in the interest of fairness.
Final Message
I really did not think this would get the type of response it ended up getting. It is clear that the way I wrote things wasn't clear enough to some people and I'll do my best to avoid such misunderstandings from occurring in the future. My apologies to those who found themselves feeling offended by what I had written, I understand TTT is important to some and that there's plenty of people that put a lot of effort into it. My post had the intent of showing my support, acknowledging the problem to exist and to clarify that missing bodies does happen. I failed to write it in such a way that it the task of sending a bolt forward, to attempt to elaborate on how this is a pressing issue that needs attention quickly and that it might be an issue that can cause big problems later down the line if it is not addressed soon. I hope this post did a better job at that least. Kemi Disclaimer: I have no scope of what is logged and what is not, I'm unaware of exactly what tools the staff have in their arsenal and it is coming from someone who is not active in TTT. Take my statements with a grain of salt if you must but they are still intended well. Trivia: Writing this took about 5 hours, 2.8k words and 15k characters and 4 drafts. . |
|
[SSRP] Ex-Head Administrator [TeamSpeak] Ex-Head Administrator [Prop Hunt] Ex-Super Administrator [Forum] Ex-Global Moderator
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by Kemi. Reason: sub is great for disclaimers, not so great if it goes off the page.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Davidov007, FireLord Ozai
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285328
|
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] Kemi wrote:
Regarding the Earlier Reply
[ [ Spoiler removed to avoid redundancy ] ]
Coming into this suggestion I sat down and took the time to fully read about the issue that Firelord Ozai presented. What he thought was wrong and why he thinks a change should be made. At the time I agreed with his statements and I still at the moment of writing this. I happened to know that some people can be very good at missing obvious details and I knew of a story that I could use as an example about why the rule is flawed. I worked it out, told the story then made an attempt to explain why I thought the rule had its flaws and why it should be changed. There are some things I may miss, and there are a couple of details that I don't know about and I'll do my best as always to make things as clear as possible, I wouldn't wanna mislead anyone or misquote something. If something is misquoted or a mistake was made people are free to point those out. It seems I had missed my mark in making clear that it was merely an example. Some people seem to have gotten a tad bit touchy about my last reply and my apologies if it upset anyone, however, as I will explain below the Among Us comparison served as no more but an example of people being blind on occasion, something that was part of my argument then, and still it is now. And yes, for the record I am aware of the differences. I will be taking Davido007's comment and disassemble it piece by piece. It seems there are some misconceptions that I'd like to clear up before making a second attempt at expressing my thoughts about the issue.
Clarification (Disassembly of Davidov's Comment)
From reading your comment, it is quite obvious to tell that you do not have knowledge of the rules, or TTT at all, which I didn't expect coming from you, considering your comments are usually well-written. I'm sorry to disappoint, however, to set a level playing field, yes I do know the rules in TTT and yes I have played plenty of it before. I usually actually have some level of knowledge of what I'm talking about and if I do not I'll do my best to do research into it before writing my posts.All things aside I make it clear that I put effort into what I do. I don't just randomly ramble on, I actually think about what I write and take into consideration the info I have and the info I do not have. I did not deem it necessary to place a disclaimer about the missing info as I thought it unnecessary in the presented situation. The flaw of your argument, as Nepgear mentioned, comes from the fact that you're comparing a chaotic clusterfuck of a "murder-game", Among Us, to a very well-refined and old Garry's Mod gamemode, TTT, which has many, many different situations, rules and laws, one of which is the fact that walking over an unidentified body gets you shot. I do agree! Perhaps my method of writing wasn't clear enough, I in no way meant to compare TTT to Among Us as a whole, I intended to state clearly that within one game (Among Us) the contrast of the playing field is much greater than in TTT. In Among Us we're dealing with brightly coloured heavily upscaled assets which stand out pretty much everywhere.Whilst in TTT the bodies are usually smaller you might see only a single foot which can be missed or colours might blend in very well together giving a natural feeling to what is on your screen. Possibly leading to you not noticing a body. Granted, I don't know how different it may be now compared to years ago, however, I can imagine that would extend to some people in ZARP have missed plenty of bodies before. Among Us is a party game without any real rules, its focus is trying to figure out what the hell is going on and it is vastly different from TTT. Of course, there will be people that stand on a corpse, not reporting it, ending up in them getting thrown out, probably upsetting them (and instantly leaving, as everyone does). Well, why does this happen? Because they're new, and there's literally no official information about how you're meant to play, as the playstyle comes from the player base itself from unspoken rules. TTT is vastly different from Among Us, but as I stated above I never meant to compare the two directly. The two share a situation (failing to identify/report a body). And it served to state that in one game the bodies are much harder to miss than in the other - if someone is capable of missing a body in a game where sprites are huge, and colours contrast very well then they can miss a much smaller corpse that can be hidden, and or one that more easily blends in with the environment.
Point There will always be people that miss the obvious even if the answer is right in front of them.
TTT, on the other hand, has pages of rules, information threads and so on. It is a completely invalid and weak argument that "a new player might pass an unidentified body without knowing they'll get killed for it", as the very first thing you should do when joining a gamemode/server you're unfamiliar with (I'm sure this is known to be true globally), is read the rules. I hate to burst your bubble, but you'd be surprised how many people don't do this. (it is A LOT) But! That is their own fault. I'm not gonna sit here and defend those kinds of people, it is a choice each individual makes at the start of their journey into a server.And yeah! You are totally right. A quick search shows plenty of threads about how to play and I'm sure that when it comes down to it that a person who plays on TTT would not mind sitting down with a new player and go over them and explain to them how to play. That is great!
Though I'm unsure where this came from
"a new player might pass an unidentified body without knowing they'll get killed for it"
If you did not somehow pull that argument from my comment then think about where you put things, contextually wise it reads as if you were claiming I said it ...the server constantly reminds players in the text chat about the rules, which they can access via "!rules". Doing so would have given them plenty of insight on what gets them KOSed and what doesn't. It is, indeed, the player's fault if they fail to do a very basic and simple action, which is identifying bodies. I had more written here but decided to reformat it so that it makes more sense based on what I wrote above. The server reminds people and that is a great thing, it makes sure that people know what is accessible and yeah I do agree there's more than enough insight. I had stated as such in the paragraph above, however, that's not the whole point.While I agree the player is to blame for not reporting a body it is different in my eyes when they did not see the body they should've reported. Some people miss out the most obvious of things and the rule as it stands can be used to KOS that person, I'll go into more detail about why this may be a problem later.
With that Aside Now on Topic
Time for a little experiment, I'll be giving you two scenarios which are spoiler quite similar. I'd love for those who are against (or for) the rule change to answer these questions to themselves. These scenarios are just there to see what you would do in the shoes of both the victim and the perpetrator in the event his suggestion seeks to avoid. All choices (except the 4th in each) have a spoiler attached with a comment on each of the options explaining how I feel about them. They are my opinion, however, so feel free to disregard those.
Let's review with this Situation:
Player A sees you move past a corpse that from your point of view you can not even see, whether it be a missing model, be hidden behind a tree, or just out of your field of view, and he calls a KOS on you for failure to identify a body.
What is your response?
What does a player need to do in the following situation?
Player A was to walk towards the tester passing by a body on the way that was behind a tree in such a way they didn't see it. And you happened to witness that from a different angle, one where you think he could see the body and see him pass by.
Way I see it: People appear to be abusing the rule in its current state and this should not be possible. A change has to be made. Any person that leaves the server never to come back because people are loopholing is a loss for the server which no one would want to happen. I feel that changing the rule, however, maybe a bit complicated looking into it further and reading into the points that some others presented. I feel that a possible better solution would be to add a log that involves eye tracers. If a person looks at a body that is unidentified that should be logged so that staff have a tool to see whether or not someone genuinely did not see a body or whether a player is calling KOS-es just to have an excuse to RDM. To be most fair that tracer should be delayed until they have looked at it for at least half a second, it should not log more than once (it'll spam it if does), only log if they are close enough to see the 'unidentified corpse' text appear, and it should state whether or not it was identified by them afterwards. It may not be a foolproof solution but anything to help would be nice to have I imagine. This issue is clearly a real issue if someone is willing to write a suggestion over it to change it. It is a way to bring to attention the problem you face and you shouldn't try to shove it off, rather try to help resolve it. The thing I put above here (the log) is merely a suggestion on how it could be done, but the TTT Staff Team must have some inventive people than myself who can come up with way betters solutions for the problem. Just keep in mind I'm not your enemy here, I merely am trying to press on how much of an issue this can be and am trying to help avoid it from becoming a big issue.
Counterpoints
Whilst looking at this from both perspectives I can see points that would stand against the rule change, though they may be against what I would prefer to happen I'll still point some of them out in the interest of fairness.
Final Message
I really did not think this would get the type of response it ended up getting. It is clear that the way I wrote things wasn't clear enough to some people and I'll do my best to avoid such misunderstandings from occurring in the future. My apologies to those who found themselves feeling offended by what I had written, I understand TTT is important to some and that there's plenty of people that put a lot of effort into it. My post had the intent of showing my support, acknowledging the problem to exist and to clarify that missing bodies does happen. I failed to write it in such a way that it the task of sending a bolt forward, to attempt to elaborate on how this is a pressing issue that needs attention quickly and that it might be an issue that can cause big problems later down the line if it is not addressed soon. I hope this post did a better job at that least. Kemi Disclaimer: I have no scope of what is logged and what is not, I'm unaware of exactly what tools the staff have in their arsenal and it is coming from someone who is not active in TTT. Take my statements with a grain of salt if you must but they are still intended well. Trivia: Writing this took about 5 hours, 2.8k words and 15k characters and 4 drafts. . bro chill |
|
|
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: brenzor9137
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285332
|
"Do not be insulted, but this is, by far, the worst argument I've heard about why not identifying unidentified bodies should no longer be KOSable."
Just clearing up, I never meant to change the rule so walking past unidentified bodies isn't kosable, i just meant to change the parameters of when you can and cant kill someone have to be changed |
|
|
TTT Admin
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by FireLord Ozai.
The topic has been locked.
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285365
|
I'll also avoid using spoilers, there's pretty much no need for them.
Responding to Kemi Before anything, I'd like to thank you for taking (a lot) of time with writing a response, there's nothing I enjoy more than a good debate about a topic I have knowledge in, but sadly, I do not have 5 hours unlike you (no offense) to write a detailed response to every single thing you mentioned, so I hope you're not disappointed. However, I feel that there isn't a need for me to counter every argument of yours, as most of them I agree with! The only problem, is that both you and FireLord Ozai are trying to solve something that isn't currently a problem. I'm saying this because I have yet to see a player abusing this "exploit" of getting away with RDM by simply saying "They passed an unidentified body". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd also like to know from Ozai himself, if this has become a problem lately and you've indeed been witness to " players getting away with relentlessly gunning down other players and then claiming that they saw a body", why haven't you reported this to other staff/LT? Something as serious as lying in reports should not be disregarded and I am still confused as to why a rule change suggestion was necessary for us to get the information that this is, apparently, a serious flaw in the rule and a big problem. My conclusion is - It's not a problem and when in a very rare occasion it is, it is a fairly obvious and easy-to-stop one. People are, in fact, not abusing this rule. I'd like to say straight away, that in my almost 2 years of staffing, I have never encountered any situation in which a player was using unidentified bodies to get away with RDM, simple as that. Never in my staffing time have I come across a player that was mastermind-manipulating the entire staff team, clearing himself from getting slayed for their random killing. I find it very hard to believe that it has suddenly become a big problem (considering the server's playerbase has actually decreased), if you have any real proof that it is indeed a problem and there are players currently abusing this, please reach out to me or the Lead Team immediately. If this were the case and players were indeed using this to avoid being punished, I'm fairly certain that it would be quite obvious to tell that they are lying. You can only use the same excuse so many times until you're found, it isn't the hardest thing paying attention to what respond with to their reports. To conclude, all I am trying to imply is that you have the right idea, Ozai. However, a rule change should only be necessary if it is being used for the wrong reasons. I am not denying the fact that someone out there might have gotten away with RDM by using unidentified bodies as an excuse, however, such players are extremely scarce. This might be a bold thing to say and I mean no harm with it, but what you've done by making this post is indirectly promote abusing this rule. Then again, I have said and still stand on the point that it is fairly easy to spot obvious lying. Because of this, I believe the rule should stay just the way it has been. Kemi spent quite a big part of his response discussing one situation where a player fails to spot or misses an unidentified body without knowing about its existence. It might be a little repetitive to say, but this isn't a problem either. Again, I would GLADLY respond to everything in detail and maybe have a private talk about this matter as well, but Economics doesn't let me write essays about rules in a video game for too long. But yeah, it really, REALLY isn't hard to spot a body, and all these suggestions to make the playermodels "stand out" are cool and all, but if I were to make an estimate, from my experience, the probability of someone not seeing an unIDed body is less than 1% in each round. Even if they end up somehow missing the body, they'll learn from their mistakes, further decreasing the chance of them making the same mistake. Now, I don't play as much as I used to anymore, so maybe people suddenly have bad eyesight. Therefore, if I'm wrong and there are many occasions where a rookie or even veteran player misses a body, correct me straight away. Your ideas on how to make corpses stand out more shows that you have good intentions and want the best for the server and players, but as I've talked about it already, none of these changes are needed due to the fact that this problem is immensely uncommon. There is currently a lot of work placed on the Server Owner's back, so I find it very unnecessary to implement additions which will barely change the outcome. Thanks for reading this far, I'm pretty sure this post is on the verge of being locked, so if you have any other things to say, I'd advise you do that via direct messages @ my discord : David Ace#3797 im not including word count and other useless stuff that no one cares about, sorry not sorry, but i will say that this took me 30 minutes to write |
|
|
♠ Ex-TTT Head Administrator ♠
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by Davidov007.
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kemi, God dammit Ross
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285371
|
David I do appreciate you taking the time to write a formal reply. I wanted to leave it at my last post at first but I feel like a short reply is in order regardless! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me, as a user (who isn't really active to begin with) I cannot grasp the exact scale on which these rules are exploited, however, Ozai is able to. I trust that he will do his best to forward any possible situation regarding this to you in the future.
I went into it mainly to share my point of view which often (regarding rules anyway) is that of "No rule should be exploitable. Period" However, as I was writing my reply it became increasingly more difficult to figure out how to best solve this "issue." I eventually came up the suggested logging, however, that is up to you guys to decide in the end. Once again I do thank you for the effort put in the reply and I'll be formally redrawing from the conversation for now as I have shared the piece of my mind that I wanted to share. Hopefully, it came over better this time than last time. And I'll gladly add you some time on discord to have a detailed discussion about stuff. Sounds like fun. P.S. I suggested nothing regarding making the models easier to see! I stated the colours were more vibrant and this already makes them easier to see. - I must be really bad at reading between the lines... or really good at adding hidden meaning. Oh well, time to go home! . |
|
|
[SSRP] Ex-Head Administrator [TeamSpeak] Ex-Head Administrator [Prop Hunt] Ex-Super Administrator [Forum] Ex-Global Moderator
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Davidov007
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285391
|
for fuck sake this is not a grammar assignment
|
|
|
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: FireLord Ozai
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285487
|
Not Not Pablo Pablo wrote:
for fuck sake this is not a grammar assignment Thank you for this brilliant insight on the subject |
|
|
The topic has been locked.
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285491
|
Kurze wrote:
The rule itself is fine. If you don't have the evidence to punish you don't punish. Removing that rule with cause a lot of chaos. People already claim the " didnt see it " changing the ignoring bodies is rather your own consern as its awareness when playing. As a T communication and awareness is key. Kurze I understand you may have a very high IQ but you failed the TFU stage 1, pipe down a bit  )))) |
|
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kurze
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285513
|
Kemi wrote:
David I do appreciate you taking the time to write a formal reply. I wanted to leave it at my last post at first but I feel like a short reply is in order regardless! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me, as a user (who isn't really active to begin with) I cannot grasp the exact scale on which these rules are exploited, however, Ozai is able to. I trust that he will do his best to forward any possible situation regarding this to you in the future.
I went into it mainly to share my point of view which often (regarding rules anyway) is that of "No rule should be exploitable. Period" However, as I was writing my reply it became increasingly more difficult to figure out how to best solve this "issue." I eventually came up the suggested logging, however, that is up to you guys to decide in the end. Once again I do thank you for the effort put in the reply and I'll be formally redrawing from the conversation for now as I have shared the piece of my mind that I wanted to share. Hopefully, it came over better this time than last time. And I'll gladly add you some time on discord to have a detailed discussion about stuff. Sounds like fun. P.S. I suggested nothing regarding making the models easier to see! I stated the colours were more vibrant and this already makes them easier to see. - I must be really bad at reading between the lines... or really good at adding hidden meaning. Oh well, time to go home! .
Well I have seen that this has turned out to be quite the huge discussion about this topic and I also wanted to share some extra thoughts about what has been said. First off, I agree with what sally says that the rule by itself isn't the problem, but rather the people that tend to exploit those rules. In my Times as a Staff member I have encountered it often enough where someone just said "Oh they ran past an unid body" just to cheese their way out of the report (I didn't believe them most of the time, but I cant really do anything if it is the first time of me seeing them use that "excuse").
The thing with the rules and Loopholes is that you can never make a perfect rule book. There will always be some people that think it is funny to abuse the rules (*cough* *cough* Kato *cough* *cough*) and I also have encountered countless people that tried to pull this off, but sadly they got away with it because the staff team was rather scared to actually do anything against it. The best example of this would be a player called Kato (You might know him from SSRP). Everytime I saw him on the server he tried to exploit some kind of rule, if it was the Rule that prevents you from being killed while holding a T-weapon or the Life-Check he tried to abuse them all. We tried changing some of em, but other we just simply couldn't and he used the first example in particular for a long time without being punished and it ended up getting innocent people punished as well (I think he tried getting me punished as well sometimes, but he knew me and he knew that this wasn't allowed what he did), all this because it was technically correct according to the rules. I don't necessarily think that the problem lies within the Rules of TTT, but rather in the way how we handle Situation and the staff team in general. I think that would be the only way to actively prevent Loopholes (well except them changing the entire Ruleset every week), because you will always have a Loophole no matter what and you will always have people that will abuse those things. The only way this can be actively prevented is by the Staff team actually looking out for something like that and actively prevent it. I agree that we shouldn't be to harsh towards people, but we just simply are to lenient on TTT allowing people a tiny bit too much and I feel like that some people out of the Staff team just simply don't really care about those kind of things. I still have some moderate "Intel" about the staff team (because of me being friends with multiple staffs) and everytime I talk to them about Zarp they repeat the same things over and over. I have noticed that the "TTT Guidebook" that some past LT member and me created is being hold as some sort of Holy Bible of staffing and that everything written in it must obeyed without any asking. The thing is, back then when we made that we had the intention to just make some "Guidelines" for staffing on the server (mostly because we got annoyed of constantly being asked simple question and I mean constantly). We have never intended it to be a set in stone rulebook. For example I have seen it time to time again that people take the "Recommended Ban lengths" as the set in stone ban lengths. Those are just recommended and the ban length is depending on the case by itself. I, for my part, wouldn't just ban someone for 3 days when he manages to get 8 punishments in a day and it would be his first ban (trust me, I have witnessed something like it and I have no Idea how he managed it but he did), I would instantly ban him for a week or something. I just personally think the best (and only) way to fix this problem is that the Staff team as a whole would just look out for this more and sometimes use their own brain on certain Situation. In the end staffing isn't just that easy and you need to put some thought into it. I know that probably most of the current staff might be scared to just fuck up stuff if they used their brain, but you gotta stick through this. You don't magically turn into a perfect machine once you get staff, we are still humans that are flawed and you will probably end making some mistakes, but in the end you learned something that might be of use for you in the future. I am also fairly sure that the LT won't demote you, because you fucked up once with a reasonable explanation as to why you did it. I can also not just simply blame the Admins and Mods, I feel like that the connections between "normal" staff team and the LT has gotten quite bad and that they don't really interact with them as much anymore. Of course you shouldn't just go ahead and question every Rule for yourself and how you should handle it now, but putting some more interest and some more thought behind certain cases ended up working for me and I prevented from someone false being punished or prevented someone from getting away with a punishment. You should definitely consider this Advice when you are going for SA, because the LT likes people that can stand on their two legs and think for themselves. Thanks for reading through this response and I am glad for any further thoughts on this topic. |
|
|
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by TheRealNepgear.
The topic has been locked.
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285835
|
@Akemi, David and Nepgear
Just make a tldr that isn't 10 pages long you nice people |
|
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by Micky.
The topic has been locked.
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1285890
|
Clarky wrote:
Kurze wrote:
The rule itself is fine. If you don't have the evidence to punish you don't punish. Removing that rule with cause a lot of chaos. People already claim the " didnt see it " changing the ignoring bodies is rather your own consern as its awareness when playing. As a T communication and awareness is key. Kurze I understand you may have a very high IQ but you failed the TFU stage 1, pipe down a bit ))))you're outrageous for the comment! How dear you smear that in my face |
|
|
Plus Ultra!
EX
EX TTT Super Administrator x3 EX TTT Head Admin
The topic has been locked.
|
[TTT Suggestion] Rule change 3 years 5 months ago #1286514
|
We feel that no better alternatives have been suggested other than to remove the rule and we feel that we should not punish player for this.
|
|
|
The topic has been locked.
|
|
Time to create page: 0.146 seconds
275 PLAYERS ONLINE
DarkRP 1
8/127
online
Deathrun
0/40
online
TTT
0/47
online
Bhop
0/32
online
Surf
3/32
online
Prop Hunt
0/42
online
Sandbox
0/42
online
Discord
264/788
online