Kemi wrote:
David I do appreciate you taking the time to write a formal reply. I wanted to leave it at my last post at first but I feel like a short reply is in order regardless! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me, as a user (who isn't really active to begin with) I cannot grasp the exact scale on which these rules are exploited, however, Ozai is able to. I trust that he will do his best to forward any possible situation regarding this to you in the future.
I went into it mainly to share my point of view which often (regarding rules anyway) is that of "No rule should be exploitable. Period" However, as I was writing my reply it became increasingly more difficult to figure out how to best solve this "issue." I eventually came up the suggested logging, however, that is up to you guys to decide in the end.
Once again I do thank you for the effort put in the reply and I'll be formally redrawing from the conversation for now as I have shared the piece of my mind that I wanted to share. Hopefully, it came over better this time than last time. And I'll gladly add you some time on discord to have a detailed discussion about stuff. Sounds like fun.
P.S. I suggested nothing regarding making the models easier to see! I stated the colours were more vibrant and this already makes them easier to see. - I must be really bad at reading between the lines... or really good at adding hidden meaning. Oh well, time to go home!
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Well I have seen that this has turned out to be quite the huge discussion about this topic and I also wanted to share some extra thoughts about what has been said. First off, I agree with what sally says that the rule by itself isn't the problem, but rather the people that tend to exploit those rules. In my Times as a Staff member I have encountered it often enough where someone just said "Oh they ran past an unid body" just to cheese their way out of the report (I didn't believe them most of the time, but I cant really do anything if it is the first time of me seeing them use that "excuse").
The thing with the rules and Loopholes is that you can never make a perfect rule book. There will always be some people that think it is funny to abuse the rules (*cough* *cough* Kato *cough* *cough*) and I also have encountered countless people that tried to pull this off, but sadly they got away with it because the staff team was rather scared to actually do anything against it.
The best example of this would be a player called Kato (You might know him from SSRP). Everytime I saw him on the server he tried to exploit some kind of rule, if it was the Rule that prevents you from being killed while holding a T-weapon or the Life-Check he tried to abuse them all. We tried changing some of em, but other we just simply couldn't and he used the first example in particular for a long time without being punished and it ended up getting innocent people punished as well (I think he tried getting me punished as well sometimes, but he knew me and he knew that this wasn't allowed what he did), all this because it was technically correct according to the rules.
I don't necessarily think that the problem lies within the Rules of TTT, but rather in the way how we handle Situation and the staff team in general. I think that would be the only way to actively prevent Loopholes (well except them changing the entire Ruleset every week), because you will always have a Loophole no matter what and you will always have people that will abuse those things. The only way this can be actively prevented is by the Staff team actually looking out for something like that and actively prevent it. I agree that we shouldn't be to harsh towards people, but we just simply are to lenient on TTT allowing people a tiny bit too much and I feel like that some people out of the Staff team just simply don't really care about those kind of things.
I still have some moderate "Intel" about the staff team (because of me being friends with multiple staffs) and everytime I talk to them about Zarp they repeat the same things over and over. I have noticed that the "TTT Guidebook" that some past LT member and me created is being hold as some sort of Holy Bible of staffing and that everything written in it must obeyed without any asking. The thing is, back then when we made that we had the intention to just make some "Guidelines" for staffing on the server (mostly because we got annoyed of constantly being asked simple question and I mean constantly). We have never intended it to be a set in stone rulebook. For example I have seen it time to time again that people take the "Recommended Ban lengths" as the set in stone ban lengths.
Those are just recommended and the ban length is depending on the case by itself. I, for my part, wouldn't just ban someone for 3 days when he manages to get 8 punishments in a day and it would be his first ban (trust me, I have witnessed something like it and I have no Idea how he managed it but he did), I would instantly ban him for a week or something.
I just personally think the best (and only) way to fix this problem is that the Staff team as a whole would just look out for this more and sometimes use their own brain on certain Situation. In the end staffing isn't just that easy and you need to put some thought into it. I know that probably most of the current staff might be scared to just fuck up stuff if they used their brain, but you gotta stick through this.
You don't magically turn into a perfect machine once you get staff, we are still humans that are flawed and you will probably end making some mistakes, but in the end you learned something that might be of use for you in the future. I am also fairly sure that the LT won't demote you, because you fucked up once with a reasonable explanation as to why you did it. I can also not just simply blame the Admins and Mods, I feel like that the connections between "normal" staff team and the LT has gotten quite bad and that they don't really interact with them as much anymore.
Of course you shouldn't just go ahead and question every Rule for yourself and how you should handle it now, but putting some more interest and some more thought behind certain cases ended up working for me and I prevented from someone false being punished or prevented someone from getting away with a punishment. You should definitely consider this Advice when you are going for SA, because the LT likes people that can stand on their two legs and think for themselves.
Thanks for reading through this response and I am glad for any further thoughts on this topic.