TOPIC: [TTT] Revert Defib change

Server Name:
TTt
Suggestion Title:
Reverting the defibrillator suggestion so that defibs drop
How would it benefit the server:

• Provides a risk towards reviving players due to the fact that if you are caught/killed then a detective could be revived, helping the innocent team.
• At the current moment, the defib is quite a low risk for a high reward, which honestly doesn’t seem reasonable.
• Of course there’s the risk that people will revive traitors which could throw the round or revive innocents which will be able to ghost, however using such information would be against the rules and I’m pretty sure it would be fairly obvious if someone is doing that.

Potential Issues/Exploits:
innos reviving traitors or other innos to ghost
Additional notes:

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Kyber wrote: This was one of the main reasons for the change, but I understand where you are coming from with reverting it.

Henny wrote: Regarding your point of innos checking logs on the other thread, iirc that’s not actually available to players who aren’t staff, and if staff have found out information through reports etc then they should be trusted enough to be able to hold that information and not to use it in the game.

Just co ordinate the suicide bomb

Kyber wrote: I meant damage logs

I was against this change in the first place but I understand why they changed it. I'm not sure whether I would like it to stay or not, but I am open to ether, depending on what others think

Henny wrote: Yeah, normal players can’t view the damage logs of the current round until a new one starts iirc.

Kyber wrote: Oh right, ignore me on that then! Ghosting is still an issue though

Henny wrote: I most definitely agree, it makes it more of a common issue but staff are there to deal with that. I’d consider it similar to normal ghosting occurring, you can’t really prevent it, however we have ways to deal with it.

Kyber wrote: Very true, I'll try to get this suggestion in next meeting and we can discuss it further.

You can only use the defib once and not buy it again so it should be kept the way it is now since respawning a team mate is a very good utility for the Traitors.

Give Kyber temporary owner so he can revert this change and then fuck off back to the Midlands

As the person who made the suggestion for it to be changed i guess i should respond to this.

• Provides a risk towards reviving players due to the fact that if you are caught/killed then a detective could be revived, helping the innocent team.
  There is already a pretty significant risk to using the defib, you have to stay over a body with no weapon out making it very obvious you are a traitor and if you run into the t room to do it you still have a chance to be KOSed. Even if you manage to pull off defibing a detective and they decide to not be a dick and just murder everyone they know is a traitor, what stops them just force testing them. You cant force someone to just pretend everything they saw while dead didnt happen, even if they dont do anything anyone would say is clear ghosting you will still play differently if you know someone is a traitor, which gives you an advantage that you otherwise would not have.


• At the current moment, the defib is quite a low risk for a high reward, which honestly doesn’t seem reasonable.
  Same as the first really but now that the flare gun has been added for detectives this point is slightly weakened as now the reward may not be as high because a lot of the traitors could have already been burned.
  


• Of course there’s the risk that people will revive traitors which could throw the round or revive innocents which will be able to ghost, however using such information would be against the rules and I’m pretty sure it would be fairly obvious if someone is doing that.
  Kind of already said it but again even if you go out of your way to not act on the information by not just killing the traitors it will still impact the way you play and provide an unfair advantage. If you know someone is a traitor you are going to be on edge around them and making sure are being extra careful so they dont kill you, seeing as traitors use stealth and surprise when trying to kill people quickly so they are not found this is kinda bs.
  

Also "I most definitely agree, it makes it more of a common issue but staff are there to deal with that. I’d consider it similar to normal ghosting occurring, you can’t really prevent it, however we have ways to deal with it." In this case you can actually prevent the ghosting if you prevent people from defibing innocents. While yeah it can be fun to defib innocents for the meme its not worth the massive potential rulebreaks and extra work for staff.

Clarky wrote: However if you’re caught in the act, you’ve performed an act which could quite possibly double the force of the terrorists if you are last in the round. If you don’t succeed then there should be something which could be a negative towards the traitors. It makes the game more strategic, because you could consider that the traitors may not want a detective to be revived which could possibly force test the living to narrow down the traitors or even use their utility. With very little risk if you define in a secluded location, there needs to be a negative towards reviving teammates , which there isn’t rn

As the person who made the suggestion for it to be changed i guess i should respond to this.

• Provides a risk towards reviving players due to the fact that if you are caught/killed then a detective could be revived, helping the innocent team.
  There is already a pretty significant risk to using the defib, you have to stay over a body with no weapon out making it very obvious you are a traitor and if you run into the t room to do it you still have a chance to be KOSed. Even if you manage to pull off defibing a detective and they decide to not be a dick and just murder everyone they know is a traitor, what stops them just force testing them. You cant force someone to just pretend everything they saw while dead didnt happen, even if they dont do anything anyone would say is clear ghosting you will still play differently if you know someone is a traitor, which gives you an advantage that you otherwise would not have.
  i agree that standing over the body is actually a risk in itself, however most players aren’t stupid enough to do it openly in the map which is a would mean they get caught in the act. Of course if it is a recurring situation where detectives are using their testing powers to avoid this situation then they could be punished. Regarding the player knowing who the traitor is and having an advantage from that, the traitor will always have the first shot unless the innocent finds a valid reason to KOS them, which is an even larger advantage.


• At the current moment, the defib is quite a low risk for a high reward, which honestly doesn’t seem reasonable.
  Same as the first really but now that the flare gun has been added for detectives this point is slightly weakened as now the reward may not be as high because a lot of the traitors could have already been burned.
  I doubt all the detectives would coordinate to burn every single traitors body as it would require multiple flare guns, however it could be something to take into consideration.


• Of course there’s the risk that people will revive traitors which could throw the round or revive innocents which will be able to ghost, however using such information would be against the rules and I’m pretty sure it would be fairly obvious if someone is doing that.
  Kind of already said it but again even if you go out of your way to not act on the information by not just killing the traitors it will still impact the way you play and provide an unfair advantage. If you know someone is a traitor you are going to be on edge around them and making sure are being extra careful so they dont kill you, seeing as traitors use stealth and surprise when trying to kill people quickly so they are not found this is kinda bs.
  
  However having the first shot will always be an advantage which the traitors bear if the inno does not have a valid reason.
  

Also "I most definitely agree, it makes it more of a common issue but staff are there to deal with that. I’d consider it similar to normal ghosting occurring, you can’t really prevent it, however we have ways to deal with it." In this case you can actually prevent the ghosting if you prevent people from defibing innocents. While yeah it can be fun to defib innocents for the meme its not worth the massive potential rulebreaks and extra work for staff.
Here i was kind of generalising it, there still needs to be a higher risk for such a large advantage and when I have played the server, I haven’t seen a single innocent defibbed and then causing problems from it. It seems to be far more uncommon than standard ghosting. For this to work you would need a traitor to die with a defib(a rare occurrence) and to have one of your buddies die, or someone would have to be traitor, which would be very easy to track whether they are ghosting as it would be illogical to even bother doing it if one is already a t. Also considering that most people don’t pay attention when they die and tab out, the chances of such a case occurring is very low.

Honestly, why? We just changed it for the main reason being ghosting and such, why change it back? Miia pretty much summed it up for you.

IMO it should stay where it is now. The ghosting part is gone and it makes the T's less overpowered.