TOPIC: Hacking policy proposal @TTT/Zarp Higher ups

With the current policies, I can't punish the person shown in my provided evidence below.



What's shocking however, is that neither can the LT of TTT, because what he was doing wasn't showing up on Anti-Cheat, which is also a flawed system. Which is why I'm making this thread.

This is fucking retarded. The hacking policies are extremely flawed without any reason as to why they are designed in such a manner.

This OBVIOUS cheater will now have to go through a ridiculously long process to be punished with nothing but a slap on the wrist.

He first, has to be caught by a staff member for suspicious actions PS : He also caught my eye when he aimlocked me 3 times in 3 different instances IN THE SAME SPRAY after shooting someone else then shooting me.)

Then, I have to, like a child, ask a big boy grown up boy LT member to come on and fix him. BIG NOTE : It was mad late, and I went through 3 different people to get someone on. Another big flaw.

The LT, as mentioned before, can't see anything on AC (as most common cheats have protection against that shit) and has to gather evidence.

Then, we have to wait until the next meeting for him to be brought up, leaving him to roam around the server like this.

Then, LT have to spend their time deciding weather or not it's actually cheats.

Then, LT have to spend their time coming up with a decision for his slap-ass punishment based on the provided video evidence.

Then that LT member has to come look for him on the server, both he and the hacker have to be on at the same time for a warning to count, or you know, the kick. BECAUSE THAT'S THE POLICY. BECAUSE !WARNID DOESN'T WORK. And good luck with the chances of that.

I got absolutely 0 clue why the policy is that fucking retarded. It's unnecessarily long, full of effort, involving tons of time and letting the hacker run free for the day until the decision, after which the decision is usually a warn or so. FOR HACKING. It feels like hackers are for some reason treated very nicely within Zarp. I got 0 clue as to why.

I propose completely revisiting them and making it easier for staff members to punish hackers. I suggest changing it so that hacking is a 1 day ban (At the VERY least 1 day, I'd personally make it 30 days, it was like that or similar to that in all other servers and communities I've ) and that admins (or mods) are allowed to handle hackers. Because currently, theirs a paradox -



Proposal for a new system:

This in my opinion is almost a flawless proposal in a pretty big issue and would make things infinitely better. This is a system that I've been familiarised with when I was a staff member in a community managed by Vakarian (a current moderator in the TTT server) and it was simple and flawless,

Evidence against ban provided in an appeal - Denied appeal, extended punishment if lying about not hacking. Negates the need of locating and talking to the staff member who banned the suspect.
No evidence - Lifted ban, warning issued to the administrator.

Those don't even look like cheats, just lag, the shotgun part at least, I have yet to watch the whole video.

Nafe wrote:
well comment when you do.

Nafe wrote:
Also, whilst I might agree that the shotgun kill wasn't all that, the fact that he is lagging strengthens all other parts quite a lot.

Lol get good and stop hacking faggot

Which to you is worse letting a hacker go until the meeting or banning someone who looks like a hacker when they are not? Innocent until proven guilty and as an admin who has no access to the Anti-Cheat you should not be allowed to ban anyone for hacking as you have no proof other than your opinion. In the cases where the Anti-Cheat shows nothing yet the user is still suspected of hacking then no single person should be able to make the call, it should be a group decision as some people will have different opinions about whether the individual is hacking or not.

Imagine i'm a new user who just started playing TTT, not hacking at all just here to have fun. I play really well for a few rounds and suddenly i get banned because an admin thought i was hacking. I'm not gonna bother appealing the ban i'm just gonna leave and join another server and the admin who thought i was hacking gets away with it.

Another issue is how do we define "evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt"? At what point do we say that very good aim turns into hacks? The fact that this cannot be easily defined is the reason why no single person should be allowed to ban a hacker, as some will think the user is using hacks and others that they just have really good aim. As a lot of it comes down to opinion it makes sense that a group of people should vote on it.

Admittedly this is very unlikely but could happen. What if TTR gets bored and decides to ban people for no reason again? He sees a rookie that just joined, waits a few rounds and then bans him for hacking, as the user is new and doesn't care he just moves onto another server and doesn't appeal the ban so TTR gets away with it. If we start letting admins ban people without having solid proof that they broke a rule situations like this could happen or even if they had no ill intent they could still make a mistake and ban someone for something they did not do.

Only giving hackers a kick may seem overly lenient but i thinks its best to give them this one chance to turn their hacks off before they get banned however i can understand that this must be frustrating for some people seeing a hacker play for almost a full week only to get a kick. To be perfectly honest though i would rather have a hacker play for the week and be voted on in the meeting over banning an innocent user because an admin thought he was hacking.

the whole problem with this is like with tons of other staff/people you assume that the person is cheating, the spectating is clearly buggy regardless of the cheating accusations. So as i said you ASSUME that he is cheating with not evidence, and looks to me watching not even the entire video no matter what this kid does you call cheats and its so fucking stupid. If you cant prove he is cheating tough shit

Miia wrote:
To me, letting a hacker go is worse. Innocent until proven guilty, sure, and the proof is in the recording. As for the anti-cheat command, I've said that already in the post - most cheats offer an option to make it so you can't see them through anti cheats, or are key-toggle injectors that don't show up on the screen. Making me as good of a judge for cheats as any other person. As for the "Opinion" part, I've provided proof, and edited it to show which parts of his game were significant in making my decision in his case "beyond reasonable doubt". Bullet curving, popular in garrys mod, is something that's isn't called on an opinion, it can be proven. Aim lock can be proven. Wallhacks, whilst speculation, can also be proven.

As for the group decision, the issue isn't as big as it should be. Hackers shouldn't be so special, they are rulebreakers, as are RDMers. They get punishments, similar to RDMers. And seeing as people can appeal an RDM warn, or a Mic spam gag, why is it different that they can't appeal a hacking ban/warn?

Playing well =/= Playing with cheats. People usually don't bother hiding it too well in Garry's mod, because there's no point - tons of servers to chose from, a punishment doesn't mean anything to them. Whilst in other games, it's much more planned. That's why it's easy to spot cheats in Garry's mod. This is also, why I propose that you should issue a ban IF, AND ONLY IF, and read this carefully : The evidence gathered for the suspects punishment would be beyond reasonable doubt that he is cheating. If it's an "iffy" kill, then it's insufficient evidence. Gather a case of evidence against him, potentially catch him admitting to it, then that would be considered "Evidence beyond reasonable doubt". IF, the person appeals it, and the administrator issuing the ban provides insufficient evidence or no evidence at all, he should be warned or even demoted. I'd say warned, because, as mentioned before - Staff get RDM cases wrong. Hacking is against the rules, RDM is against the rules. If you get an RDM case wrong, it's no different than getting a Hacking case wrong. I don't know if I'm constructing my point well enough here but I hope some people get it.

As for you saying that some people won't be bothered to appeal it - Yes, that might be a problem. That's why I'm not saying remove Anti-Cheat, I would say that staff should be instructed to ask a Lead Team member to view them on Anti-Cheat, FURTHER STRENGTHENING a case of evidence against the suspect. This however, should only happen if the staff member is having trouble defining weather or not the suspect is a cheater. This post is made towards blatantly clear hackers who don't even try to hide it, or hide it really bad. If it's a suspicion, and the admin would ban him based on a suspicion, that admin is simply corrupt. That's a whole, WHOLE 'nother issue.

It's not unlikely that TTR will ban people again (it's literally a 20%/80% lmao I'd put a low bet on the 20 myself but whatever) but for that point you've written, the whole point about TTR, is again - an issue about corrupt staff. It's not a hacking specific issue, but a more staffing issue. The way to go about this, is to see bans issued by staff at the end of each week, as they don't happen often - construct a rapsheet of all bans during the week and review them - This wouldn't be much trouble for LT to do at the end of the week, any red flags - they question it. Again, it's a staffing issue rather than the hacking-ban issue. As for the part about "banning someone without solid proof" - I'm saying an admin should have solid, SOLID proof (evidence beyond reasonable doubt) when issuing a ban against a hacker. They don't happen often, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I disagree with you a lot on letting the hacker go scat-free. He won't even care about the slap on the wrist he'll get, on my case with Emil, if you remember, the dude only got a warn. A warn. As for kicking people who hack for a chance to let them turn their cheats off - No thank you. It enforces people to hack whilst no admins are on, rather than stop hacking overall. A hacker will hack, he'll just realise he got caught and go about it differently, and seeing as we let KNOWN, PROVEN hackers continue playing, we just enforce the fact that they will alter their hacking methods. It's not a risk I'd have. I remember being a user on Zarp when no admins are on. It's scary.

EDIT : I think your main point was the whole innocent until proven guilty part.

I've had around over 4 warnings issued, all of which were appealed and proven to be wrong. Issuing a ban on a hacker would be no different. If someone does get it wrong, it should be noted and the person issuing the punishment should be warned or demoted.

Keith Cozart wrote:
Bullet curving aint proof enough for you? Last bit of evidence aint enough for you? The whole video aint enough for you?

I've seen spinbotters get away with this stupid ass policy, I don't know if y'all are being funded by a hacking site or what but this is extremely fucking odd how you give hackers so many free passes.

I am not convinced that guy is cheating, and no i am not saying this just to cause an argument or some bullshit, I am just not conviced and would not punish off of tbis recording alone.

Nafe wrote:
That's understandable, If I would've recorded sooner it would be much better but that's good - you'd, as a staff member, look for more evidence against him in order to ensure that he is cheating. That, in itself, is really good and it strengthens the quality of moderation and staffing in the server. Whilst, this clip is enough to get a ban, the thread itself wasn't made to get that person banned, far from it, it's mainly to issue a proposal for the shit policy to change.

Svanzscape wrote:
Back in 2014 dark rp used to be a free for all and admins would ban permanantly for racism, i want those days back, based off of what I said i hope you can imagine admins showed hackers no mercy and didn’t have go cry to a super admin if someone was obviously aim botting

@Svanzscape You have no clue how frustrating it is to be falsely accused of being a hacker. Hell me and my friends was being harassed by admins for months until they gave up. Hell I even made a video back then:



I mean, do you really think it's fair to ban someone who plays well, sure I agree in the video you provided it kinda looks like hacks but is that always the case? Probably not. If you think that taking the concept of banning players based on opinion is going to be healthy for the server? Hell no, Zarp admins are on average 15 years of age and you consider them to have the ability to aknowledge hacks? Sure the hacking process you described seems very long and probably could be shortened but that's not what your title suggests so just please stop bumping this thread?

Moved to Server Issues / Suggestions for you.

We do not allow administrators to handle hackers for a very good reason.
If Admins were allowed to deal with these situations based on only what they perceive to be hacking, we would have an entirely new problem on our hands where we would have to unban the majority of those banned. Not even a Lead Team member is allowed to ban someone based on what we see, and we can only use something already deemed to be conclusive evidence in order to punish a user, and they must be kicked on their first offence, and then permanently banned on any further offences.
Lead Team members have access to anticheat commands which allows us to see if a user is hacking or not. In the cases where a user is using a client that we are unable to detect with the automated or the manual anticheat commands, anyone can record the video and send it to a Lead Team member to vote on in the meeting.
Changes should not be made to the policy to allow Admins to deal with situations like this, as nobody can really know when someone is definitely using hacks, and we do not trust our Admins enough with these situations in order to tell them that they may ban anyone they suspect of hacking. Here in ZARP, we always promote the innocent until proven guilty mindset, and this change would go completely against it , leading to many users being falsely banned.
The only situations where someone can be banned for hacking without anticheat evidence is when a video has been voted by the Lead Team to be conclusive evidence of this user hacking, and even then we are reluctant to punish people for it, as there are ways it could be explained, hence why we have to discuss and review the evidence properly in the Lead Team meeting, and we will only decide it to be conclusive if we can agree that there is blatant hacking in the video provided.
Also, we can detect most hacks with our anticheat methods, which we have many of.

The changes you have suggested should not be made, as we have our current policy outlining the way that evidence is reviewed for a very good reason, and it is the fairest way to review evidence.

You are actually triggering me by saying "bullet curve"

The lag was backtracking.



There is no real evidence he is hacking except some fast movement and some lag compensation shots that look weird on your end and before you say but DEAD you just said that it was backtrack. Isn't backtrack a hack take a look at the source engine below

github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013...ompensation.cpp#L328

Since hacker thing is popular again I thought of linking this. Happened tuesday night when no SA/HA avilable anywhere. Afterward I have linked this to 1 and asked 1 if they would be interested in reviewing a 8min video



I have over 1.5h of footage but it includes leaking my full name and its rather long so I cut it down to these parts. What dp you guys think?

LonelyDodo wrote:
For god sake stop slowing the video down. Youtube has that feature and it is really weird to try and check it out when half the video is like 0.2% speed.

He has some insane flicks and it is probably due to silent aim due to pSilentAim being patched.

But yea he is most likely hacking

The point i think is on this post that video was an example. It feels like now to me i have encountered many hackers some obvious and others are not. And for the a millionth time LT there is shit that can bypass anti-cheat whether you all want to accept it or not. And the fact that LT need to vote on obvious hackers to be banned is just delaying the inevitable. I would understand it on someone who is missing half of their shots, but getting headshots on everyone but someone who is locking on and not missing anything and clearly toggling? In my opinion there should only be votes on something like this when its actually NEEDED not just every hacker we see who is bypassing anti-cheat because like i said some are obvious others are not.

Jaxjaxjack wrote:
We know you can bypass the anticheats, however part of the reason why there is more on TTT that can bypass them is because the anticheat has not yet been updated on TTT for some reason to the new one because apparently nothing that I worked on is allowed to go onto the server. The updated anticheats are harder to bypass, and will catch the majority of cheats, however the reason we allow voting on them in the Lead Team meetings is because we know that they can be bypassed.
Admins should not be allowed to punish hackers.

Suprised you haven't seen anyone doing the lag compression exploit yet.

Where they can kill you from where you were 1 second ago and insta defuse bombs lol

Gonna be honest CSGO is a lot worse and this isnt anything compared to what people are doing on match making servers on MM.

People can just rage then crash the server and nothing ever gets recorded