TOPIC: [TTT/Forums] TheXnator Demote Request

Staff Member(s) Name: Xnator

Staff Member(s) SteamID: Not needed

What Did The Staff Member(s) do?: Warned me for a rule that did not exist at the time

What Server(s) Was This On?: Forums/TTT

Evidence and the story:
So on January this year I started my military service and was out of reach for about 6 months until I got sent to reserve. During this time I was obviously unable to play on the server so when I came back I had to re-learn the rules. I went through the rules with a fine comb and triple checked nothing was changed and the parts that were I noticed (For example I spotted a 1 word diffrence on the rule 1.7a which was that you were no longer allowed to shield yourself with props, which btw is something I still disagree with.)

After carefully going through all the rules I start hitting up my old contacts and asking if there are some things I needed to know and someone said the line: "You have to question people on why they killed an innocent" and logically I hit up a friend of mine House up asking about the rule in which he states the following

So in here House clearly says it isn't in the rules and hasnt been for a while (well I can prove it hasnt been since at least January of 2018 but more of that later)

Before asking House I had decided to go to the roots and ask what the situation was from the man himself Xnator. I asked him on Discord on June 27th (2 days before I asked House) and even to this day he still hasn't answered me


At the time of the incident the rule stated this


So the rule list, Server owner, past rulings that have been made (without any rule changes to that rule in between), and the handling staff member are on my side and ruling in my favour so what happens? Xnator comes and overrules and uses something that he just then said on TTT discord as proof that the rule exists. So if we were to tackle what Xnator states it has been changed since my resignation surely Dr.House as the server owner would know about that since he was on the staff team back then? Surely there would be a mention in the rule changes section of one of the meeting outcomes (I checked all of them and there are not), and surely the rule would have been reworded so that it included said section of this new rule?

Anyone missing the context this is the punishment request in question

Further proof of this being not a rule are here which is a report I made like a day afterwards as I had just accepted the rule at face value. If "someone does not have to ask why you killed an innocent", but "by no means is killing an inno in it's own KOSable it's killing an inno and not giving a reason for it" how does the rule even work? Spoiler it really doesnt it was just made on the spot by Xnator to settle some score he had with me.



So from January of 2018 to when I resigned the rule was that killing an innocent is KOSable (as it should be) which is something I personally can confirm and from that point Kurze or House were on the staff (and more specifically lead) team until this situation occured so there is no way this rule was changed without them knowing.

TL;DR: Xnator warned me for a rule that didnt exist and I had already double checked that th erule didnt exist by asking him and the server owner

Extra: I wish for DEADMONSTOR and Clarky to not handle this. Their feedback is still welcome if they can follow the TOU.

DEAD and I already had an extensive discussion about the situation and didnt end up having any sort of agreement and I cant believe he is impartial so hence why I don't want him handling.

And Clarky has always failed to act civil towards me so I do not want him making any decisions in my reports.

Last side note: I find it funny when the Developer starts making rules and overruling staff members

because i mean why not cause a shitstorm because "it's always been like that" when it's never been like that and everyone (including people that have significantly more experience than you with the gamemode) disagrees with you

seems good to me

SorIe wrote:
According to sources I have he once came on the server and someone killed him for killing an innocent and he warned the guy because he was mad and at that point came up with the rule in the first place

I cannot confirm this it's just a rumour I have heard and thus should be disregarded

CeeZee wrote:
I dont really care how you take me its more of how you take people being unjustly punished.

And about him being out to get me I can not see into his heart and know what causes his actions I can only speculate and the fact that he went out of his way to punish me for a rule that didnt exist for at the very least 18 months seems like going out of their way to get back at someone. I even stated that as it was speculation it should be disregarded.

Edit:

At first I was about to not even start the bs about me causing a shitstorm, but if me following the rules that xnator made up and wanting others to follow them too is me causing a shitstorm its too bad. I made like 5 punishment reqs and a demotion request regarding this event (on Tom) and all of them were denied because the rule didnt exist outside punishing me.

Why I made diffrent punishment requests?
They happened at diffrent times and most of the time when I got another rulebreak recorded the old one was already being handled or they were not connected. Its not like i had the videos waiting until I would release a barrage. If I had been would you think I would have stopped at merely 5? Its not my fault that severly changing the server rules causes people to unintentionally break them (and to be accurate not really change the rules since changing rules requires you to actually vote on the things instead of just declaring them out of nowhere)

Also one small sidenote do you expect to be te taken seriously with your color shite? Doesn't look cool nor does it make you any more special. Just my 2 cents on the issue

Ima be honest I read the whole thing and still have no idea what’s going on

Oof House deleting announcements made by higher ranking staff

TTT might need a new owner soon gents

.uzi wrote:
Well you take what you want but a CD announcing rules that have never been even voted was not one of the CD rights last time I checked and as such House did what was right

E: not to mention this cant be new info as they have logs on Discord that everyone in LT I believe can see (or higher I dont know what the settings would be these days)

LonelyDodo wrote:
I mean, sure he’s the Server Owner but he can’t go around undoing stuff willy-nilly that was created or imposed by those higher in rank than him. Should have at least spoken to them in a civil way first rather than shoot first, ask later.

E: Didn’t see your edit before I replied: I know for a fact Xnator didn’t know who deleted it so I’m not sure if there was logs of it being removed

E2: At this point, I don’t really know what side of the fence I sit on. I for one understand why such a rule would be made cause it’s quite frankly bullshit to see a domino effect of (potentially) inno kills because of one, possibly valid, mistake.

I don’t ever remember it being different back in 2016 although my memory could be hazy on that. I think we should agree to disagree and find out what the most popular TTT servers do and follow the curve on this one.

.uzi wrote:
Well we can debate the rule some other day but its not today or at the very least not this thread. This thread is about it not being in the rules when I was punished for it. Maybe it should be, but at the time it wasn't. Everything else is secondary from my point of view

And for the record I wouldn't call it undoing stuff if the stuff there was by no means official and merely someones misguided belief especially if it started causing trouble to staff.

We played like that for over a year and I don't understand how a user at the time should know about a rule being changed if it only gets announced in the staff discord channel. As long as its not public we should not punish users for something they can't even know about.

Tom. wrote:
For a rule to be changed it needs to go through proper channels which it did not until after I was punished for it and DEAD had to intervene. Meaning it was not a rule, but a rule suggestion back then and a suggestion had no place in the announcement channel in the first place.

.uzi wrote:

LonelyDodo wrote:
It is something that was discussed by the Lead Team, is an integral part of the gamemode itself and was already in line with the existing rules. It comes under common sense, due to simply being part of the gamemode (and the point of the gamemode itself).

Following your complaints about the situation, this was discussed again, and once more explained to staff to be the case. We let people know that they should verbally warn people for things which they felt were vague / unclear about it first, rather than just straight up going to harsher punishments, due to the fact that it would be incredibly unfair to straight up punish them for something when some staff members had been doing it differently - I would also like to point out that myself and other staff members have been enforcing this aspect of the gamemode the entire time.

This probably would have been the same for you, but your attitude in the community and on the forums were absolutely abysmal, and this is why you received a warning rather than just a verbal (this is something that Clarky agreed with at the time). You have to remember that, even though you were a Head Admin in the past, this does not make you high and mighty, or above anyone else at all. That is one of the key elements of this community, and nothing is going to change about that. If you want to be staff and work up the ranks again, you can apply, but until then, please stop with the attitude towards our staff, acting like you're above them and generally showing a bad attitude in the community. If this does not stop, then there will be consequences for it.

I wasn't in the Lead Team meeting which followed, so I couldn't remind anyone to put an announcement onto the forums or bring up a proper vote / discussion about it (like I said, we had already discussed it again in the Lead Team channel on Discord, and there were little to no complaints about it).

When I was first a staff member almost 3 years ago right up until I was a Head Admin on the server, staffing for around 2 years on TTT as a Lead Team member before I resigned to focus on the servers I owned, I was explicitly trained to punish users in this way, and always trained people as such. No rule has been changed since then that would change this.

I would also like to thank you for letting me know who deleted the announcement that was made. At the time of this, we also had a discussion on it and that announcement was posted. I was wondering who had deleted it, and everyone had told me that they had no idea who it was. I'm slightly disappointed to hear that it was House, and also the reasoning that was given.

Turtle965 wrote:
There is a link to the original punishment req on my app. If you read it and was out of loop you probbaly didnt click the link saying "here is some context" or something according to the lines. So if you are out of loop read the thread and open the links

The punishment requests were not some messgae I used to say "Hey look these people break the rules as well" two wrongs dont make a right. Instead until the rule was decided everyone should have been forced to play on the same level. They decided that no there is another set of rules for me and other one for all other players (or quite frankly didnt think of the consequences of their actions. Anyway I feel that I got wronged there as well but I have talkes it through with Dead and we are fine

Regarding me revoking my mod app. As i stated publicly on forums staff members exist to enfroce the rules the server has. You have to enforce all of the rules and enforce them fairly. I would refuse to enforce the rule I was punished for as it harms the gameplay more than fixes it and as such I was no longer fit for staff and had to revoke the application.

TheXnator wrote:
We can discuss the integrity of the game mode on another thread as I stated, but as I proved in my post if you click on spoilers and links this rule infact did not exist at the time you punished me for it. I proved it and you cannot deny that and as such you punished me for a rule that didnt exist. Your intention for that is not up to me to decide but I believe it was malicious

this was added as an edit and wasnt part of the original post
Also we can discuss further on Discord if you feel like finally responding to me

So you are going to completely ignore what I said when you said you were going to make a demote request on Xnator and you are completely ignoring what I said about the rule and how it goes.

I am going to lock this and I will be talking with Chute about what you said in DM's and your attitude in general