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TOPIC: Do you think we have free will?

Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373867

Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373869

just type yes
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373870

Don't do the project and tell your philosophy that you had the free will not to.
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373877

Nafe wrote:
Don't do the project and tell your philosophy that you had the free will not to.
this motherfucker ahhaahah
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373878

Nafe wrote:
Don't do the project and tell your philosophy that you had the free will not to.
honestly if I did that but waffled it to make me seem smart I would probably still pass
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373885

I am forced to reply yes
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373889

maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

Free will doesn't exist since we're all NPC's in a massive simulation

yes, my brain is mush
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373895

To cut a long story short... Yes.
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373899

Free will? Not on the zarp forums
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373913

RubyTheSlump wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

Free will doesn't exist since we're all NPC's in a massive simulation

yes, my brain is mush
I think it’s very possible that we are artificial intelligence ran by some random kid in the future
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373925

maddox wrote:
RubyTheSlump wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

Free will doesn't exist since we're all NPC's in a massive simulation

yes, my brain is mush
I think it’s very possible that we are artificial intelligence ran by some random kid in the future
the word "intelligence" seems to disprove this theory
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373930

maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will. Me punching you in the face was based on the intention of proving you don't have free will, which in turn was based on my weekly habit of visiting Zarp forums & stumbling across this post. All actions are based on each other like domino bricks, but it's so chaotic to predict that you get the illusion of free will.

This video is pretty interesting

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~ The doctrine of logos is merely a dogmatic expression of interpersonal subjection; uncorrelated of an absolute, objective ruling ~
Last Edit: 3 weeks 6 days ago by Aspect.
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373932

Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373933

Free will is for sale and CHEAP in Harbin market in China
You can say that little anecdote in your project :zarp:

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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373937

not really
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373939

Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy

Everyone will react differently because they all have their own unique brain structures formed by past events. It's like having two different rube goldberg machines molded over a lifetime, but you expect them both to do the same thing. Even if they happen to react similarly (by coincidence), it's still not the same output.

If you're conscious about the concept of free will when you get punched in the face, you might try to make up some new reaction just to prove you have free will (A force that is driven by a need to prove your inner belief about free will to be true, not free will), but in actuality you'll try to rely on a gut feeling, which could happen to be a single neuron firing up last second which is the deciding factor on what random reaction you could pull off. But how did that neuron get there? Maybe 2 hours ago you had a sandwitch which made you think about tomatoes, so instead of reacting to getting punched in the face you scream "TOMATO" just to prove you have free will. You'll never be able to track down why you said it because it happens on such a low level that we can't measure, which as I mentioned earlier gives the illusion of free will.

Something interesting in computer science is pseudo randomness: You can't actually generate truly random numbers because that doesn't exist, you can only make the process really complicated so it's harder for others to predict (Commonly today we rely on time to get our number).
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~ The doctrine of logos is merely a dogmatic expression of interpersonal subjection; uncorrelated of an absolute, objective ruling ~
Last Edit: 3 weeks 6 days ago by Aspect.
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373944

Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy

Everyone will react differently because they all have their own unique brain structures formed by past events. It's like having two different rube goldberg machines molded over a lifetime, but you expect them both to do the same thing. Even if they happen to react similarly (by coincidence), it's still not the same output.

If you're conscious about the concept of free will when you get punched in the face, you might try to make up some new reaction just to prove you have free will (A force that is driven by a need to prove your inner belief about free will to be true, not free will), but in actuality you'll try to rely on a gut feeling, which could happen to be a single neuron firing up last second which is the deciding factor on what random reaction you could pull off. But how did that neuron get there? Maybe 2 hours ago you had a sandwitch which made you think about tomatoes, so instead of reacting to getting punched in the face you scream "TOMATO" just to prove you have free will. You'll never be able to track down why you said it because it happens on such a low level that we can't measure, which as I mentioned earlier gives the illusion of free will.

Something interesting in computer science is pseudo randomness: You can't actually generate truly random numbers because that doesn't exist, you can only make the process really complicated so it's harder for others to predict (Commonly today we rely on time to get our number).
Are you just basing free will on the ability to do something new then? because it's not, reacting the way you choose to regardless of whether it's normal or new or different is free will in itself

Instead of reacting to being punched by shouting tomato is a reaction. You have the free will to write absolute books to make a point that doesn't make sense
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373947

Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy

Everyone will react differently because they all have their own unique brain structures formed by past events. It's like having two different rube goldberg machines molded over a lifetime, but you expect them both to do the same thing. Even if they happen to react similarly (by coincidence), it's still not the same output.

If you're conscious about the concept of free will when you get punched in the face, you might try to make up some new reaction just to prove you have free will (A force that is driven by a need to prove your inner belief about free will to be true, not free will), but in actuality you'll try to rely on a gut feeling, which could happen to be a single neuron firing up last second which is the deciding factor on what random reaction you could pull off. But how did that neuron get there? Maybe 2 hours ago you had a sandwitch which made you think about tomatoes, so instead of reacting to getting punched in the face you scream "TOMATO" just to prove you have free will. You'll never be able to track down why you said it because it happens on such a low level that we can't measure, which as I mentioned earlier gives the illusion of free will.

Something interesting in computer science is pseudo randomness: You can't actually generate truly random numbers because that doesn't exist, you can only make the process really complicated so it's harder for others to predict (Commonly today we rely on time to get our number).
Are you just basing free will on the ability to do something new then? because it's not, reacting the way you choose to regardless of whether it's normal or new or different is free will in itself

Instead of reacting to being punched by shouting tomato is a reaction. You have the free will to write absolute books to make a point that doesn't make sense

I'm on the assumption that free will is the notion of impossible to predict behavior (Physically impossible). My belief is that we have the resources to predict certain things, and as we progress with things like Neuralink, it'll take us even closer to breaking things down.

In 2016 Alpha Go beat the best player in Go. What was so interesting was how the AI came up with new strategies such as only winning by 1 territory whilst traditionally it was about maximizing territory. Does Alpha Go have free will because it came up with new strategies that humans hadn't thought about?

Writing a book is based a lot of factors. One being an interest in writing, another factor is other writers one might look up to. If you put a newborn on an island, would he randomly start writing an absolute 800-page book 20 years later just because? I think not because he didn't get these insights about doing it. Therefore, you writing a book is based on a multitude of data points from what everyone else did.
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Last Edit: 3 weeks 6 days ago by Aspect.
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373948

Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy

Everyone will react differently because they all have their own unique brain structures formed by past events. It's like having two different rube goldberg machines molded over a lifetime, but you expect them both to do the same thing. Even if they happen to react similarly (by coincidence), it's still not the same output.

If you're conscious about the concept of free will when you get punched in the face, you might try to make up some new reaction just to prove you have free will (A force that is driven by a need to prove your inner belief about free will to be true, not free will), but in actuality you'll try to rely on a gut feeling, which could happen to be a single neuron firing up last second which is the deciding factor on what random reaction you could pull off. But how did that neuron get there? Maybe 2 hours ago you had a sandwitch which made you think about tomatoes, so instead of reacting to getting punched in the face you scream "TOMATO" just to prove you have free will. You'll never be able to track down why you said it because it happens on such a low level that we can't measure, which as I mentioned earlier gives the illusion of free will.

Something interesting in computer science is pseudo randomness: You can't actually generate truly random numbers because that doesn't exist, you can only make the process really complicated so it's harder for others to predict (Commonly today we rely on time to get our number).
Are you just basing free will on the ability to do something new then? because it's not, reacting the way you choose to regardless of whether it's normal or new or different is free will in itself

Instead of reacting to being punched by shouting tomato is a reaction. You have the free will to write absolute books to make a point that doesn't make sense

I'm basing free will on the notion of impossible to predict behavior. My belief is that we have the resources to predict certain things, and as we progress with things like Neuralink, it'll take us even closer to breaking things down.

In 2016 Alpha Go beat the best player in Go. What was so interesting was how the AI came up with new strategies such as only winning by 1 territory whilst traditionally it was about maximizing territory. Does Alpha Go have free will because it came up with new strategies that humans hadn't thought about?

Writing a book is based a lot of factors. One being an interest in writing, another factor is other writers one might look up to. If you put a newborn on an island, would he randomly start writing an absolute 800-page book 20 years later just because? I think not because he didn't get these insights about doing it. Therefore, you writing a book is based on a multitude of data points from what everyone else did.
Well then you're view of free will is what I'd consider wrong, whether someone's behaviour is predictable or not doesn't matter, one person can choose to live the generic family life or one can choose to kill someone and spend a life in jail or become leader of a country they all chose that or their choices led them their which is all free will, no one else made them do any of those things.

Also about the infant on an island I rekon he won't write a book because he won't have learnt how to ya plonker what sort of analogy is that, the "multitude of data" is the ability to write, understand at least one language (helps when you're writing) and the want to write a book
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Do you think we have free will? 3 weeks 6 days ago #1373950

Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
Lewis_is_java wrote:
Aspect wrote:
maddox wrote:
Need ideas for my philosophy project thanks

If I punch you in the face you'll react against your will.
I think this proves the opposite if anything, the fact that people will react to this differently proves free will. Someone will choose to be upset, angry or just deck you cause you play zarp and hit like a pansy

Everyone will react differently because they all have their own unique brain structures formed by past events. It's like having two different rube goldberg machines molded over a lifetime, but you expect them both to do the same thing. Even if they happen to react similarly (by coincidence), it's still not the same output.

If you're conscious about the concept of free will when you get punched in the face, you might try to make up some new reaction just to prove you have free will (A force that is driven by a need to prove your inner belief about free will to be true, not free will), but in actuality you'll try to rely on a gut feeling, which could happen to be a single neuron firing up last second which is the deciding factor on what random reaction you could pull off. But how did that neuron get there? Maybe 2 hours ago you had a sandwitch which made you think about tomatoes, so instead of reacting to getting punched in the face you scream "TOMATO" just to prove you have free will. You'll never be able to track down why you said it because it happens on such a low level that we can't measure, which as I mentioned earlier gives the illusion of free will.

Something interesting in computer science is pseudo randomness: You can't actually generate truly random numbers because that doesn't exist, you can only make the process really complicated so it's harder for others to predict (Commonly today we rely on time to get our number).
Are you just basing free will on the ability to do something new then? because it's not, reacting the way you choose to regardless of whether it's normal or new or different is free will in itself

Instead of reacting to being punched by shouting tomato is a reaction. You have the free will to write absolute books to make a point that doesn't make sense

I'm basing free will on the notion of impossible to predict behavior. My belief is that we have the resources to predict certain things, and as we progress with things like Neuralink, it'll take us even closer to breaking things down.

In 2016 Alpha Go beat the best player in Go. What was so interesting was how the AI came up with new strategies such as only winning by 1 territory whilst traditionally it was about maximizing territory. Does Alpha Go have free will because it came up with new strategies that humans hadn't thought about?

Writing a book is based a lot of factors. One being an interest in writing, another factor is other writers one might look up to. If you put a newborn on an island, would he randomly start writing an absolute 800-page book 20 years later just because? I think not because he didn't get these insights about doing it. Therefore, you writing a book is based on a multitude of data points from what everyone else did.

Well then you're view of free will is what I'd consider wrong, whether someone's behaviour is predictable or not doesn't matter, one person can choose to live the generic family life or one can choose to kill someone and spend a life in jail or become leader of a country they all chose that or their choices led them their which is all free will, no one else made them do any of those things.

Also about the infant on an island I rekon he won't write a book because he won't have learnt how to ya plonker what sort of analogy is that, the "multitude of data" is the ability to write, understand at least one language (helps when you're writing) and the want to write a book

I don't consider it to be wrong, but I don't think I've portrayed my intuition of a deterministic existence well enough. I look at life as a rollercoaster. You're riding it, experiencing it, but "you" (your consciousness) ultimately don't have an impact on where the ride takes you, but it's a set path ahead. The examples you brought up of what you might do in life appear to have will behind them, but it's an illusion, in actuality it's an oversimplification of something chaotic. A game seems real when enough components are there to distract you, but the components by themselves are nothing more than pillars.

My island example maybe was too abstract. I made it absurd to portray that he won't write a long book because of the circumstances, but if he truly had free will he would have been as likely to write a book as someone partaking in society.

The point is you're going focus on the things that are near you, and if you don't have the concept of free will in mind, your behavior will be very predictable. If you have a computer in your room you're probably going to use it several hours a day. If you have a restaurant nearby you're going to use that instead of the one further away.
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