TOPIC: Harsher punishment hackers

I was genuinely tempted to hack when I heard that you only get a kick if you get caught the first time, what do I have to lose if I just hack once and stop? I get all the illegitimate benefits of using hacks up until the point of getting caught once then I can stop and continue as normal. What I really don't understand is the logic behind giving them a second chance.

EMP wrote: Out of curiosity, what would be the argument against a temporary ban on first offense? I agree that a permanent ban is both too harsh and has too little of an effect, but a few day ban or one week ban on first offense would still be managable, no?

EMP wrote: Thats what I thought aswell, I told myself that I wouldnt even attempt to return and I would cause problems via alts.
That lasted long didnt it?

Didn't we already vote on something along this lines a few weeks ago, I feel like Morgan or someone wrote a pretty extensive post about this matter.

EMP wrote: People shouldnt be literary perma banned, They should be banned for long enough to change thier minds. Most people wont care about being banned for the first month or 2. But after a couple of months though, They will slowly start shifting back and regretting thier decision.

You mentioned that if people are perma banned and they dont have a chance to come back, They would cause more problems with alts. But if you think about it, That person actually cares somewhat. If he literarly didnt care, He wouldnt bother using alts to cause problems. I can almost guarantee you that in a few months, The person who spammed alts, Will attempt to appeal thier ban and actually apologise with real words, It really depends on how much time he was banned for though, I will use my self as an example for this.
(Time that has passed since my CM ban and my attempts to appeal)
3 months - I wrote a "Fake" apology and requested to be unbanned. (Denied)
4 months - I copied my last email and I changed it a bit (Denied), At this point I say: "Fuck it lol, I dont give a shit about zarp anymore, Lead team is full of cunts".

7 months - I write another apology this time its apologetic but I refuse to take responsability, Saying that Other / Former Lead Team Members were also a factor (Denied). Once again I blame the lead team but as time goes along, I start to reliase that I was the one who fucked up.

10 months - At this point, I get to the point where I look back at what I did and I relaise that I was simply being a immature and egotistical 14 year old thinking I was untouchable. I look forward to rebuild and improve my relations with Lead Team Members, I take full responseability and I try to reach out privatley to them to apologise.

In other words from all this unneccearly dramatic bullshit that I wrote: As time went on, My opinion shifted and having served relatively high punishment, I got to the point where I would never do what I did again.
Of course thats IF the person punished actually cares enough.

Another line in your post which I wanna mention, You said that people who are scared to cheat on thier main would just use alts and VPNs but that also slows down cheaters somewhat. Since now if you get caught cheating, The punishment is much much harsher, Its more risky to cheat now. Now its not as easy or relativly low risky anymore to cheat on your main, Inorder to cheat with much lower risk, You have to use a VPN and a ALT now which some people would just say "Nah, Its just not worth it". NOT all but it still lowers the number of cheaters. I cant help but compare this to prime MM in cs go, While its true that there are cheaters in prime, If you compare it to non-prime MM, The amount of cheaters in non-prime MM will far outweigh the amount of cheaters in prime MM.

I cannot disagree with you on the fact that Garrys mod itself is the huge issue. But with much stricter polcies, You can always change thier minds / Make people think twice before considering cheating. That might sound hard and harsh but people who want to use cheats and ruin the experience for others for thier personal benifts dont have "Nice" in thier vocabulary.

Mobile Task Force Gunner wrote: The bottom line is changing the policy will not make it any more risky for people to hack on the server. The people you guys are bitching about are not the randoms that come join the server and hack break rules and get banned. Its the long time players discreetly using hacks that are undetected, that your all afraid off and for some reason you guys think changing the policy will magically improve the problem. The temptation would still be present maybe some of the smarter people would be wary of using their ALTs. Some of you can try and tell me you wouldn't but thats bullshit if you have ever seriously considered hacking then it wasnt not our policy that trully emboldened you. But as I said before the game itself, what do you really have to fear from cheating in a game that lets you. You seem to think for some reason the that the policy makes it "easy" to cheat, the game makes it easiy and safe to cheat not us and there is nothing we can do to change that mind set. Thats something only the game developers can do. People who want to hack will hack either on their main or on an ALT. Since people seem to be dumb enough now to cheat on their mains thats better then scaring them off to their alts where we are still in the same situation but with much of cheaters hidden on ALTs with no way for us to find their main. You illustrated my point great, you caused hell for months after your ban with ALTs and spam. Why did you do that? I'd be willing to bet it was because you were perma banned and saw only a slim chance of returning. I'm sure as you spent more time away that slim chance grew into hope of being allowed back in. But what would have happened if you had looked to ZARP and seen no hope? If our policies were shaped towards one fuck up and your never ever coming back. Would you have stoped? Maybe after getting board but how long would that have taken?

Is there anyone else out there who has similar experience running a massive gmod Community who would want to share their input on the matter? Or maybe someone who seems to think that changing the policy will fix things is a fact as so many have portrayed it would care to break down exactly how and what evidence lead them to that conclusion? I have years of experience doing this with Chute and we have well over a decade of experience between us. We used to perma ban people on FP no warning for hacking and you would still find long time regulars hacking and guess what happened most of those who were banned would show back up repeatedly on alternate accounts and continue to cause problems because they saw that there was no way to return.

I honestly think that the forgiving nature of ZARP is both admirable and beneficial for the community. After some consideration I don't really believe that hackers should be permanently banned or anything because that goes against the whole idea of the community.

The arguments that invalidate the "gta lets you have another chance" argument can also be used to argue against change. GTA is a big company, they do not have the resources to handle each case of hacking individually and it benefits them if people buy the game again, whereas at ZARP cases can be reviewed personally by the lead team. We don't need to ban people because we can help them change.

That being said, there needs to be some form of dissuasion for hackers. Honestly I quite like the idea of wiping their inventories (at least partially) or stripping them of something else for a set period of time. In addition to this, if someone apologizes for hacking, and then proceeds to do it again, that is completely inexcusable and that user deserves a lengthy ban.

EMP wrote: May I point out that I stated that cheaters shouldn't be "Literary" Perma banned with no chance of coming back. You're right, Only reason I considered to appeal was because I saw that there is a very slight chance of coming back, But after a couple of appeals and time I reliased that until I actually improve my maturity and attitude, I wont be able to return.

In no way did I say that a policy change would make things perfect nor did I state that the policy is the main thing that pushes people to cheat, I simply stated that the situation can be better in my eyes if the polcies were harsher. But not extremely harsh like Perma bans with no hope of return. It should be a balance in between, Cheaters deserve a punishment harsh enough / More time off to regret it and to not repeat it again, But they should NOT be perma banned without hope of return, That just makes matters worse. ill be honest, If I was banned and I had no chance of coming back, I would have probably continued causing trouble.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was wrong in my choice of words in the risky part, What I meant to say was "Now if you get caught cheating the punishment is far harsher, The risk of getting caught is the same as before but in the event you do get caught, You'll be punished way harder then before. But now that I think about it, My sentence is flawed. This Change / Action will / can go down in 2 different ways. (Or both)

1: The harsher policies will decrease the amount cheaters because people would fear being caught, Seeing as they would be punished hard in the event they're caught.

2: The harsher policies will increase the amount of cheaters on alts, Overall reducing the amount of cheaters caught on thier mains. Since now the policies are harsher now, Less Cheaters will choose to cheat on thier main, Fearing the punishment. A Side effect of this is now people would cheat on thier alts. In the event they're caught, It wouldnt mean much since its an alternate account anyways.

Adding list of hackers and their punishment soon

Added a small list of hackers!

Agreed, hackers are disgusting scum!

Whidd wrote: Didn't you hack like a million times...?

Raeker wrote: The world may never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

Another one bites the dust....

I agree, hackers should have harsher punishments. I’ve only seen three in murder, but when I do, they clearly don’t care for a two day ban. I think it should be higher, especially if they keep doing it when asked to stop.

bump!

bump!

Hack on 4 sessions..... 5 days later receive a kick. I don't see anything wrong with this