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Poll: Should the policy be harder?

I agree 10 90.9%
I don't agree 1 9.1%
Total number of voters: 11 ( Jason., danielmark2356, Hoops_1991, RFlex, Miia ) See more
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TOPIC: Harsher punishment hackers

Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746555

I find it stupid how one of the most competitive Gmod servers have a piss poor excuse for a hacking policy, people can use hacks as a crutch for days or even weeks (needless to say ruining the experience of loads of people) only to receive a kick telling them not to do it again.

That doesn't stop people from hacking in the slightest and quite frankly just encourages shitter players to download some hacks to make them feel better knowing pretty much nothing will happen IF they are caught
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746558

exrobite wrote:
These were my own messages that I sent in the Lead Team Whatsapp regarding the hacking issue. From my own perspective, when Red says that the Lead Team told him hacking isn't a big problem, I can at least personally say that I think hacking isn't as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

You have failed to outline why hacking shouldn't carry a harsher punishment.

Most F1s are about RDM. A lot of the time, I get complaints from users that they made the F1 ages ago and that they've already been RDMed five times since they made the original one. Not just that, they also complain about the items lost by having been RDMed.

An irrelevant piece of purely subjective, anecdotal evidence.

In the end, it's simply a fact that hackers gain an unfair advantage over users. Not just that, there are plenty of hackers each day ruining the experience for others. However, looking purely at the issues that we have in the community, hacking is not one of the biggest problems we have.

The abunance of a certain form of rulebreak should not correlate to the punishment associated with it. I'd say murder is a lot less common than speeding, but you don't get a life sentence for going 30 in a 20 zone.

Losing an event or a raid to hackers feels bad, yeah, but getting RDMed and losing valuable items is an even bigger one.

Losing items to a rulebreaker is bad no matter what. The rulebreak itself has no bearing on this.


After all, when you encounter a hacker there was already a chance of you dying regardless of whether they're hacking or not.

What is your point here? The fact that they are hacking means that they have intentionally given themselves an unfair advantage over players. The consideration of any other outcome is moot because they are hacking and they have a completely unfair advantage.

It wouldn't even surprise me if a large portion of the hacking reports turn out to be false, although I have no numbers or facts to support that claim.

It is probably a given, yes, but the idea that has been put forward is to do with the punishment given to those proven to be hacking, therefore this point is also irrelevant.
That's a fair assessment - I understand that not everything I brought up was as relevant as it could have been.

As stated by earlier posts, I support a policy change, I simply disagree with the notion that's often stated that hackers are these "horrible users that deserve no mercy" kinda thing. Often times I see people shouting that they should be permanently banned or whatever, but it's simply a fact that you can do a lot of horrible shit in the community and still return after only a few months. Hacking should not be an exception to that.

I also disagree with the fact that users often go into long discussions about how we should treat hackers harsher, whilst general rulebreaks are a larger concern all over the community that in my honest opinion deserves more attention than it's currently getting. Perhaps not the best counter-argument to make against a hacking policy change, however as I stated I don't actually disagree with some sort of a change to the hacking policy to make hackers get away with less shit.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746561

Nutzu3650XL wrote:
MyNameBrokeTOU wrote:
I find it stupid how one of the most competitive Gmod servers have a piss poor excuse for a hacking policy, people can use hacks as a crutch for days or even weeks (needless to say ruining the experience of loads of people) only to receive a kick telling them not to do it again.

That doesn't stop people from hacking in the slightest and quite frankly just encourages shitter players to download some hacks to make them feel better knowing pretty much nothing will happen IF they are caught

but dude the hakcing policy is extrememly strickt !1!
when u hack in gta u can mkae new account
but when u hacc in zarp u cant make new account

Sori men, i mistayke make
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746675

Raeker wrote:
exrobite wrote:
These were my own messages that I sent in the Lead Team Whatsapp regarding the hacking issue. From my own perspective, when Red says that the Lead Team told him hacking isn't a big problem, I can at least personally say that I think hacking isn't as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

You have failed to outline why hacking shouldn't carry a harsher punishment.

Most F1s are about RDM. A lot of the time, I get complaints from users that they made the F1 ages ago and that they've already been RDMed five times since they made the original one. Not just that, they also complain about the items lost by having been RDMed.

An irrelevant piece of purely subjective, anecdotal evidence.

In the end, it's simply a fact that hackers gain an unfair advantage over users. Not just that, there are plenty of hackers each day ruining the experience for others. However, looking purely at the issues that we have in the community, hacking is not one of the biggest problems we have.

The abunance of a certain form of rulebreak should not correlate to the punishment associated with it. I'd say murder is a lot less common than speeding, but you don't get a life sentence for going 30 in a 20 zone.

Losing an event or a raid to hackers feels bad, yeah, but getting RDMed and losing valuable items is an even bigger one.

Losing items to a rulebreaker is bad no matter what. The rulebreak itself has no bearing on this.


After all, when you encounter a hacker there was already a chance of you dying regardless of whether they're hacking or not.

What is your point here? The fact that they are hacking means that they have intentionally given themselves an unfair advantage over players. The consideration of any other outcome is moot because they are hacking and they have a completely unfair advantage.

It wouldn't even surprise me if a large portion of the hacking reports turn out to be false, although I have no numbers or facts to support that claim.

It is probably a given, yes, but the idea that has been put forward is to do with the punishment given to those proven to be hacking, therefore this point is also irrelevant.
That's a fair assessment - I understand that not everything I brought up was as relevant as it could have been.

As stated by earlier posts, I support a policy change, I simply disagree with the notion that's often stated that hackers are these "horrible users that deserve no mercy" kinda thing. Often times I see people shouting that they should be permanently banned or whatever, but it's simply a fact that you can do a lot of horrible shit in the community and still return after only a few months. Hacking should not be an exception to that.

I also disagree with the fact that users often go into long discussions about how we should treat hackers harsher, whilst general rulebreaks are a larger concern all over the community that in my honest opinion deserves more attention than it's currently getting. Perhaps not the best counter-argument to make against a hacking policy change, however as I stated I don't actually disagree with some sort of a change to the hacking policy to make hackers get away with less shit.
Thats your opinion but you gotta remember when someone is cheating its not like they care about others and the respected rules in the first place ofc that also applies to rules like RDM but hacking has a higher impact, In my opinion with what you've stated saying that you can break alot of major rules but still get off with it (Mass RDM for example), Those punishments need to be harsher aswell. Not just cheating. When someone mass RDMs at spawn / Goes around being outright racist / Or really any other action that has a big impact, They dont deserve to be let off with a relatively minor punishment, They deserve to be perma banned in my eyes since they dont care about the rules or other people to begin with, So why should we care about them? The same can be said for cheating, It ruins the experience for everyone (Those involved) just to get an advantage for themselfs, So why treat them like regular players when they "Selfishly" use cheats which ruins the experience for everyone just so they can have an advantage?

TL:DR : Cheaters / Mass rulebreakers dont care about the people involved and the server as a whole, So why care about them?
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746683

I would just straight up just permaban them they hack they deserve what they get
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746685

Thanks for the overwhelming support and discussion, i really appreciate this
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746805

Even though Raeker is terrible at presenting Chutes argument and reply to this he is right though. If hackers are such a big problem then a really good player is just of a big problem, because they do the same thing: beating the majority of players. Besides Zarp has evolved enough do ensure cheating doesn't give you the biggest advantage, items do. If you have let's say a Jugger suit with a Tgun versus a hacker with psg you're going to win every time no matter what kinda of crazy snaps the hacker pulls. And sure while it's frustrating to lose 1v1's against hackers in general keep in mind that rarely happens and it's not gamebreaking even though it sounds like so due to most people comparing it to previous experiences against hackers in games like Cs:go where the main goal is to win, however Zarp doesn't have that kind of goal making hacking a big waste of time.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746923

The Anti Cheat should be able to stop them to be fair
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746926

But I use citizen that's why I tap everyone I don't want a ban I am nice person if u get to know me .
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746927

Lewis. wrote:
The Anti Cheat should be able to stop them to be fair

To an extent Anti-cheat does do some of the catching if people are extremely dumb enough to inject .lua scripts whilst joining/in-game.

But then when Lead Team uses AC it doesn't catch every hack (ESP, Bigpackets are easy) which is why the hacking policy sorta changed into a vote-based decision so if someone who's more experienced can point out whether or not a user is hacking should anticheat fail to immediately catch anything (due to detouring or hidden overlays)
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746975

Aspect wrote:
Even though Raeker is terrible at presenting Chutes argument and reply to this he is right though. If hackers are such a big problem then a really good player is just of a big problem, because they do the same thing: beating the majority of players. Besides Zarp has evolved enough do ensure cheating doesn't give you the biggest advantage, items do. If you have let's say a Jugger suit with a Tgun versus a hacker with psg you're going to win every time no matter what kinda of crazy snaps the hacker pulls. And sure while it's frustrating to lose 1v1's against hackers in general keep in mind that rarely happens and it's not gamebreaking even though it sounds like so due to most people comparing it to previous experiences against hackers in games like Cs:go where the main goal is to win, however Zarp doesn't have that kind of goal making hacking a big waste of time.
That's the thing though not everyone can afford Jug Suits and Tguns. Meaning there are still lots of affected players, Hackers still have a huge advantage over others Rich or not you won't always have those items to back you up.

Remember the whole "hacking" epidemic that occurred when everyone thought or still thinks that I had cheats? Well if you say that "hackers" will lose if there is a Jug Suit and Tgun that is not the case. Hackers can be rich aswell experienced players can cheat at anytime (note this isn't me saying I am or was cheating it's just a counter argument) making it even harder for players to enjoy their time on the server. I was claimed to be a "hacker" and a Jug Suit didn't always save you guys.
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Aspect wrote:
you always manage to 1 shot us even though you're extremely exposed in the open and you shouldn't really have a chance to kill us. You just make these crazy 1 taps not even Hermione did when he played, and I can tell you he played 18 hours a day at one point.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746988

That's the thing though not everyone can afford Jug Suits and Tguns. Meaning there are still lots of affected players, Hackers still have a huge advantage over others Rich or not you won't always have those items to back you up.

Yeah and not everyone can afford hacks yet they exist. You're ignoring my endgame argument which states someone with the best possible aimhack would never beat someone with a suit. This goes to early game aswell (if you exclude explosives) as you have your own base with 1 way props and such that a hacker can never outplay you as he will be a target from a 360 degree angle, while he only is able to shot you through the props you choose to open.
Remember the whole "hacking" epidemic that occurred when everyone thought or still thinks that I had cheats? Well if you say that "hackers" will lose if there is a Jug Suit and Tgun that is not the case. Hackers can be rich aswell experienced players can cheat at anytime (note this isn't me saying I am or was cheating it's just a counter argument) making it even harder for players to enjoy their time on the server. I was claimed to be a "hacker" and a Jug Suit didn't always save you guys.

First of all, i know you've turned off your 'hacks' weeks ago as I have not have had a single problem facing you in 1v1's (in different names) recently, but i guess that's just a coincidence lol. Either way since you turned it off you're bragging about the accusations which is kinda sad.

Either way if you're rich and hacking that still doesn't give you the skills needed to outplay someone who's generally better than you. It's about interpretation, experience, predictions, suprising the enemy and more in order to outplay someone which you don't have and that's the reason you're not able to raid the Disco base while it's guarded by some of the main people in it.

So my conclusion pretty much is the fear of facing hackers. It creates competition and demands you to get creative on the battlefield rather than moving your mouse fast with coconut oil under it. If there was no hackers I would not fear anything on Zarp pretty much which makes it boring quite fast, especially if Zarp lost it's players by banning every hacker permamently for good that they came across (keep in mind players contribute alot to the server just by playing on it so they deserve seconds chances as they contribute to making the Zarp playerbase bigger.
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Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by catboy sven ツ.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #746990

Aspect wrote:
That's the thing though not everyone can afford Jug Suits and Tguns. Meaning there are still lots of affected players, Hackers still have a huge advantage over others Rich or not you won't always have those items to back you up.

Yeah and not everyone can afford hacks yet they exist. You're ignoring my endgame argument which states someone with the best possible aimhack would never beat someone with a suit. This goes to early game aswell (if you exclude explosives) as you have your own base with 1 way props and such that a hacker can never outplay you as he will be a target from a 360 degree angle, while he only is able to shot you through the props you choose to open.
Remember the whole "hacking" epidemic that occurred when everyone thought or still thinks that I had cheats? Well if you say that "hackers" will lose if there is a Jug Suit and Tgun that is not the case. Hackers can be rich aswell experienced players can cheat at anytime (note this isn't me saying I am or was cheating it's just a counter argument) making it even harder for players to enjoy their time on the server. I was claimed to be a "hacker" and a Jug Suit didn't always save you guys.

First of all, i know you've turned off your 'hacks' weeks ago as I have not have had a single problem facing you in 1v1's (in different names) recently, but i guess that's just a coincidence lol. Either way since you turned it off you're bragging about the accusations which is kinda sad.

Either way if you're rich and hacking that still doesn't give you the skills needed to outplay someone who's generally better than you. It's about interpretation, experience, predictions, suprising the enemy and more in order to outplay someone which you don't have and that's the reason you're not able to raid the Disco base while it's guarded by some of the main people in it.

So my conclusion pretty much is the fear of facing hackers. It creates competition and demands you to get creative on the battlefield rather than moving your mouse fast with coconut oil under it. If there was no hackers I would not fear anything on Zarp pretty much which makes it boring quite fast, especially if Zarp lost it's players by banning every hacker permamently for good that they came across (keep in mind players contribute alot to the server just by playing on it so they deserve seconds chances as they contribute to making the Zarp playerbase bigger.
Never used them in the first place but ight there bud
Also we rarely encounter each other in 1v1 situations anymore as you don't defend outside I'm also a lot less active then I was before.
Either way we aren't arguing about wether I was cheating or not but I still get accused a few times a week.

Either way the problem is, even though you can defend yourself against a hacker doesn't mean that they dont have advantages. If you haven't noticed only the "good / experienced" players tend to base nowadays which is literally just BiB and FA and the other smaller gangs that surround them. When a player decides to base that ISNT involved in those gangs than they will most likely lose (not always). We need to stop cheaters in general especially so newer players will want to continue basing.

Also players with less skill and balance to defend themselves tend to hide printers a lot and cheaters can easily find that and start getting rich over time and start taking on bigger enemies like BiB or FA with items that can defend them.
Cheaters are a problem mainly for newer/uskilled players and we have a lot of those, the server doesn't revolve around us.
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Aspect wrote:
you always manage to 1 shot us even though you're extremely exposed in the open and you shouldn't really have a chance to kill us. You just make these crazy 1 taps not even Hermione did when he played, and I can tell you he played 18 hours a day at one point.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747008

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

I'm not really going to reply to any of that cause you didn't really answer any of my arguments. Regarding finding printers with hacks I don't support it but if you knew how much money you can print just by leaving the computer over the night just to come on the next morning and get tons of free cash you didn't even work for is unfair. Sure there are Scan Masters and such but as not enough players consistently check for hidden printers (especially when school starts and less people play) it is pretty much the same thing as printing cash on the FP servers if you've ever done that.
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Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by catboy sven ツ.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747057

I really don't think having a harsher punishment for hacking will have the effect any of you think it will. If you want to talk about something that emboldens hackers its the fact that they have nothing to fear from the game itself. In every other game hackers are at war with not only the players and the server owners but also the game developers/creators. This is a critical advantage that we are missing in Garrys Mod and people know that. The game its self does very little to stop hacking with the current VAC system needing to be constantly manualy updated and only auto detects a small amount of ancient hacks. Last time Garry did a ban wave for hackers he detected outside of VAC was in 2013. Why would cheat developers want to waste time and money trying to fight developers when there is fucking free reign here in Garrys Mod. The only thing thats gonna change that is Facepunch stepping it up but don't count on that ever happing in Gmod...

Coming from experience I know if we were to change our policy nothing would change. People would still be just as tempted to hack greeted by all the undetectable hacks they could get. Those who might be a little more scared of doing it on their main would utilize a VPN and ALT to hack undetected and untraceable because they can. Those who we did catch and banned seeing they would never be unbanned and wanting to cause more trouble would do what I said above and continue to cause problems on alts. If they dont see a second chance posible there is nothing to lose from using alts to come back on further continuing the problems. Bottom line is people who want to hack are going to and there is nothing that we can change to discourage that I promise you.

We have updated our polices to alow for the team to review outside evidence for hacking accusations. Something I think is a slippery slope unless its super fucking blatant. But I think thats all that needed to be changed. I've seen what happens when hackers are perma banned instantly it changes nothing if not makes things worse.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747059

EMP wrote:
I really don't think having a harsher punishment for hacking will have the effect any of you think it will. If you want to talk about something that emboldens hackers its the fact that they have nothing to fear from the game itself. In every other game hackers are at war with not only the players and the server owners but also the game developers/creators. This is a critical advantage that we are missing in Garrys Mod and people know that. The game its self does very little to stop hacking with the current VAC system needing to be constantly manualy updated and only auto detects a small amount of ancient hacks. Last time Garry did a ban wave for hackers he detected outside of VAC was in 2013. Why would cheat developers want to waste time and money trying to fight developers when there is fucking free reign here in Garrys Mod. The only thing thats gonna change that is Facepunch stepping it up but don't count on that ever happing in Gmod...

Coming from experience I know if we were to change our policy nothing would change. People would still be just as tempted to hack greeted by all the undetectable hacks they could get. Those who might be a little more scared of doing it on their main would utilize a VPN and ALT to hack undetected and untraceable because they can. Those who we did catch and banned seeing they would never be unbanned and wanting to cause more trouble would do what I said above and continue to cause problems on alts. If they dont see a second chance posible there is nothing to lose from using alts to come back on further continuing the problems. Bottom line is people who want to hack are going to and there is nothing that we can change to discourage that I promise you.

We have updated our polices to alow for the team to review outside evidence for hacking accusations. Something I think is a slippery slope unless its super fucking blatant. But I think thats all that needed to be changed. I've seen what happens when hackers are perma banned instantly it changes nothing if not makes things worse.
But the problem is third and fourth chances have and will be given. Eventually there needs to be a cut off.
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Aspect wrote:
you always manage to 1 shot us even though you're extremely exposed in the open and you shouldn't really have a chance to kill us. You just make these crazy 1 taps not even Hermione did when he played, and I can tell you he played 18 hours a day at one point.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747061

EMP wrote:
I really don't think having a harsher punishment for hacking will have the effect any of you think it will. If you want to talk about something that emboldens hackers its the fact that they have nothing to fear from the game itself. In every other game hackers are at war with not only the players and the server owners but also the game developers/creators. This is a critical advantage that we are missing in Garrys Mod and people know that. The game its self does very little to stop hacking with the current VAC system needing to be constantly manualy updated and only auto detects a small amount of ancient hacks. Last time Garry did a ban wave for hackers he detected outside of VAC was in 2013. Why would cheat developers want to waste time and money trying to fight developers when there is fucking free reign here in Garrys Mod. The only thing thats gonna change that is Facepunch stepping it up but don't count on that ever happing in Gmod...

Coming from experience I know if we were to change our policy nothing would change. People would still be just as tempted to hack greeted by all the undetectable hacks they could get. Those who might be a little more scared of doing it on their main would utilize a VPN and ALT to hack undetected and untraceable because they can. Those who we did catch and banned seeing they would never be unbanned and wanting to cause more trouble would do what I said above and continue to cause problems on alts. If they dont see a second chance posible there is nothing to lose from using alts to come back on further continuing the problems. Bottom line is people who want to hack are going to and there is nothing that we can change to discourage that I promise you.

We have updated our polices to alow for the team to review outside evidence for hacking accusations. Something I think is a slippery slope unless its super fucking blatant. But I think thats all that needed to be changed. I've seen what happens when hackers are perma banned instantly it changes nothing if not makes things worse.

I kinda disagree, the thing about having a policy that allows hackers to get a first strike and get away with it, is what encourages them to cheat in the first place. If you get caught hacking the first time, it's only a kick/warn. If this would simply be changed to a ban, I think that would scare a lot of people, rather than them thinking they have a free pass the first time they get caught.

I agree it's a problem that the players who are banned can log onto alts and use a VPN, however, this is a problem in every game, and it's very hard to fix this. But I disagree when you say that it makes it worse, because when a main account gets permanent banned, and they then log onto an alt, where they use a VPN, they must be extremely careful not to draw attention, and it's only a matter of time before people start noticing a completely new account that goes around 1 tapping everyone, and sooner or later, someone is gonna rat that person out, since he must be playing with some of his friends on the server.

I despise hacks, but I cant lie, when I figured out that you only got warned/kicked on the first offense, I was kinda tempted myself.
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747070

*French*
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Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747080

Changing the punishments for hacking would only bring fear to those in the community that wish to hack, given that the majority of hackers that come through the servers are not part of the community and have no intent of staying don't actually care about the punishment given but rather the amount of damage they can cause in their time of madness. The time-zone in which these hackers get away with most things is one not covered by lead team members, so rather than trying to put all the effort into a change that would not have much effect, how about spending time into getting staff members that cover time-zones that are not currently covered this would also help with the rule-breakers in these time-zones.
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Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Sally.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: ChummyXRay, Raeker

Harsher punishment hackers 6 years 10 months ago #747083

I guess im the only one that thinks its fine as it is
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