TOPIC: [TTT] Demote Request - Assassin

Staff Member(s) Name: Assassin

Staff Member(s) SteamID:

What did the Staff Member(s) do?: Slayed and Warned me for "teaming", while I was afk. The only explanation he would give is that a "Traitor killed 3 people in front of me and I didnt do anything". That's probably somewhat accurate, but the big problem is that I was AFK during that round... I didn't know anything about any action taking place that round and still don't know who I'm supposed to have been "teaming" with.
When adressed about his mistake, he prefered resorting to accusations and when I asked him to try to remove the warning if he could, since the events contradict his verdict, he said that "he wouldn't remove it, whatever happened" , meaning whether I'm guilty or not.
That's so unprofessional, a grotesque mistake to begin with, and then the dismissive attitude that followed.
I wonder how one can prove to have been AFK during a round, which he prompted me to do, I hope the logs can shed light on that.
Since I'm the victim of a wrongful punishment, I think he should be the one providing proof for his decision of giving a warning.
Else we have a "guilty until proven innocent" system which opens the door to this kind of abuse. Most people don't have proof of their innocence.

What server(s) was this on?: TTT #1

Evidence: The logs from last night just before 4:43 AM UK time, and a screen of the warning and slay http://imgur.com/a/99t5s

Before warning you, he should've talked to you and made a decision unless he has strong evidence. He must talk to you first to hear your side of the story. You might need to provide some evidence though.

I'll handle this.

That's what I figured would have been the proper way of handling it, I even told him that. It must be in the report i made against him ingame

anymore evidence... maybe a video or something?

No I don't have a video of me being afk.
Doesn't the server run an afk tracker? Since afks are automatically put in spectator mode after a while, surely my inactivity left a trace somewhere?

At any rate, wouldn't it be more sound and logical regarding the structural integrity of your Justice system, for the author of a controversial punishment to produce a proof of guilt, instead of the victim of the abuse having to produce the proof of their innocence??

EDIT: I understand you're asking for a proof of the abuse happening, and I can only guide you to the logs, where it should show I didn't move, buy, shoot, basically do anything the round before I got slayed (I was slayed 5secs in the next one). This could be proof for that.
What I'm also saying is HE doesn't have any proof for the punishment, and I think that that in itself should be grounds for at least lifting the warning and some sort of punishment coming his way, for not following the guidelines on slaying and warning a player for teaming.

Sparrow wrote: As he is a staff member, he doesn't need proof. If he believed you to be Teaming then he's allowed to punish you for it. If you have proof that his judgment is wrong and he clearly warned you invalidly then that's what we need.

I'm looking at the old logs and have spoken to Assassin. Expect an outcome somewhere tommorow.

"As he is a staff member, he doesn't need proof"
I hope you guys see how that principle is detrimental to the servers when its abused. We're talking about a guy who saw a T shoot people and an AFK next to him and said "I'll slay and warn this guy, I have enough proof"

Thanks for taking the time, but there's reason to be pissed off here.

Sparrow wrote: That's how staffing works. We don't make pictures of every RDM happening as "proof" in case someone might report you for abuse on the forums and say that the warning is invalid.

If you RDMed then a staff member is allowed to punish you for it, whether you have proof or not. Similarily, if you appeal or report for abuse on the forums we can check the old logs to see whether they confirm your story, just like we are now.

I understand why you might be upset, and to a regular user this probably feels like unfair treatment, but that's how it works.

To give another example: if you mic spam and we gag you, we don't need to provide you with an audio transcript to proof that you indeed mic spammed, because we as staff know you mic spammed and we punished you for it. That's what the punishment system is for: to log all of the punishments you have received and misdeeds you have done.

Sparrow wrote: Staff doesn't need to show evidence. It's the person that's reporting who needs evidence and only the person reporting. We trust our staff and that is why we require evidence from the players.

Assasin told me that you were Walking by the traitor when he killed about 3 people and you did nothing. He also didn't want to kill you for some reason. If you don't have anything to disprove that it is meaningless with this report.

I understand how you can't / don't have to track every mischief, however I feel that some offenses are in a grey area where some bad admin knows he won't have to produce proof and just lets himself slay/warn without much proof at all.
I feel it's worth pointing out that not only seasoned regular players but also (especially) newcomers can find themselves confronted with the impossible task of proving an abusive admin is wrong. The bad apples are few but they make a lasting iimpression on the public.
Again, my underlining these problems is only in the context of this ridiculous misuse of power.

Sparrow wrote: As I said, I understand your concern, but without proof we can't do anything. If you record all of your games with plays.tv or shadowplay and have clear proof of the abuse appropriate action will be taken, but in most cases where no proof is provided we'll have to believe the judgement of the staff member.

Well there you go, as I feared he straight up decided to blatantly lie to your faces, and he knows he'll get away with it. That's a shitty state of things guys. I got up to brush my teeth the whole round before the slay happened, I barely paid any attention to the game for those 5minutes, and there you have a guy saying I WALKED next to the T, when he NEVER mentioned that to my face when confronted, just saying "you were there and did nothing" but now that he knows he fucked up and I was afk, he had to go ahead and be dishonest. Talk about trust.

Thanks for trying Raeker, even though I don't understand how the logs can't show activity / location in a way that disculpates me.. As for Luki, I get you trust staff, but when someone comes up with grievances against one, try not to be dogmatic about that trust because it's hurting the admin - player relation. In this case it's misplaced and I hope you'll figure it out soon.

i just gone into the old logs and found out that you wasint afk (as you was reclaiming) and it was before i even warn you and as i said i saw you teaming with that traitor and after 20 secounds he killed you for some reason with ACR and i am pretty sure that you saw him killing me for no reason and then he id my body to found out that i was innocent and near the house you both shacked your heads to each other like (dont worry i gotcha) and you was also helping him to collect the minecarts
but i think i was wrong that you saw him killing 3 other people because the logs didnt show that but minecrarts ... and letting him away after he killed me for no reason and shacking your both heads to each other was enough for me to warn you

Proof: http://imgur.com/a/Eartu

Your whole reason for slaying and warning me up to that point was: I was walking next to a T that killed 3 people around me.

You just COMPLETELY demolished your initial and only claims backing your punishment decision: The T killed me 20seconds after you saw me next to him, and the logs say that you lied when your whole claim was that I was at the scene of 3 murders.

Now that you destroyed what the punishment is based on, you come up with a story about head movements, and something obscure about minecarts THAT YOU NEVER MENTIONED BEFORE noticing your mistakes. (I think you just found out about him killing me and that if you had done your homework THERE and THEN, you wouldn't have went on with your on-the-spot decision to tag me as a teamer)
I never teamed in my life, that T killed me. I wouldn't dispute something I'm guilty, let alone this long.

I WAS INDEED AFK FOR MINUTES ON before joining back and getting slayed, so me saying I was afk and having no recollection of any action of the round before is COMPLETELY TRUE: i just figured the action you were talking about must have happened during a round that STARTED and ENDED while I was away. Instead it seems I went AFK AFTER the litigious action, which is even more ridiculous because I've been playing for a while and I can't see myself in a situation where I could be mistaken for a teamer. I love to kill T's. I really can't put my finger on whatever led you to your gross misinterpretation at best or at worse your weird way of getting at someone because you got killed and were mad.

Let's imagine you're not coming up with a fabrication to patch up your story after you realized your mistake through the logs: I can come up to anyone and have a one-time interaction with them, that doesn't mean I know they're a T and I'm in a secret team with them. Slaying and Warning me is way out of line, even if you misinterpreted the situation.

I think that this calls for sanctions, because that's proof of a false initial justification AT LEAST.

My warning wasint based on heads movement it was all based that you didnt kill him after you saw my full death sense (you was infront of me while i was dieing dont tell me it was 1vs1 because i wasint even looking at him and i was innocent so that's enough to proof that you was teaming with him and he didn't kill you after you he killed me infront of you which is a lot suspect
and at least i got a proof
whats your proof ?

I know your warning wasn't based on head movement because it was based on something else that you proceeded to prove wrong yourself: 3 MURDERS THAT I WAS A WITNESS OF, and probably you thought that I survived that round without the T killing me which you FOUND OUT HE DID... nothing you said initially is true, why should we believe you now??

Let's stretch the imagination, disregard all your previous false allegations and give you the benefit of the doubt (which you didn't give me when you just slayed and warned me immediately) : EVEN IF I SAW SOMEONE SHOOT SOMEONE ELSE, I CAN'T KILL THEM RIGHT AWAY, I CAN DECIDE I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PROOF TO MAKE THE DECISION TO KILL HIM, I CAN BE MISTAKEN ABOUT SOMETHING, I MAY HAVE MISSED THE NAME OF THE SHOOTER, I MAY HAVE THOUGHT HE HAD REASON TO SHOOT YOU, LIKE DNA... And most probable in my situation: I DIDN'T NOTICE IT!!!

I mean guys, are we looking at the same thing here? He clearly backtracked, at best was grossly mistaken on his initial report if not lying, now his whole evidence has shrunk to this fragile testimony? This calls for a sanction, this is by no mean grounds for a slay and warning, its probably not grounds for SUSPICION of teaming for most people. I don't know what went through his head, but this whole thing needs a sane resolution because we're reaching heights of absurdity.

As i said if you have a proof that i am wrong and you wasint teaming with that traitor
I see that here the logs is not enough because it doesn't shows what actually happend like what did you say and where you go and these things so we want a demo/video of what happend

I think you've provided enough proof of the ruinous inconsistencies in your story, and the sheer fact that you repeated, over and over again a certain version of events, namely that I was around 3 murders and NEVER mentioning the fact that the T KILLED ME, OVER and OVER again, basing EVERYTHING you claimed against me on those facts, before admitting it was FALSE, that is proof enough that whatever you say is untruthful, and at the very least inadmissible evidence.

You're the one who posted my proof, good job.

As i said logs dosent show everything and expect outcome today and you still dont have proof btw i proofed that you lied about being afk the hole round and you lied either on timeing (of when did that happend)

Ahh btw about 3 murders i am pretty sure that it happend because the old logs are mostly broken
(I am not blind)