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TOPIC: [Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal

[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302137

ik im unbanned wrote:

jam wrote:

No matter how obvious it looks (which from what I'm reading wasn't too out of the ordinary) you CANNOT warn for ghosting without a confession, there is just no way to prove it so you get evidence and they vote on it in the LT meeting, the warn should definitely be removed and as for the report abuse biosenic did handle the situation wrong so he will likely be told what he should've done but since he is overall a pretty good admin and something like this hasn't happened before as far as I know so I doubt anything else will happen

They wouldnt make special tools to find out who's ghosting if you can't even warn them without a confession. If you have a reasonable doubt someone's ghosting you can warn them and if they weren't ghosting well UNLUCKY for them

My bad I presumed the policy would be similar to the policy for hacking but its more or less you need reasonable evidence

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302138

Teach your friend how to play, don't break rules, play fair and have fun. it's not that hard.	usveinha Offline Junior Boarder Posts: 177 Thanks received: 115 Karma: 6
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302140

usveinha wrote: Teach your friend how to play, don't break rules, play fair and have fun. it's not that hard. Yeah, but he didn't break any rules? Are you retarded?	Buffy Offline Gold Boarder ❤️ Rex ❤️ Posts: 2531 Thanks received: 2231 Karma: 1
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302141

seems like you got rage punished bc the staff member died while using a good hiding spot, unlucky i guess	Chespin Offline Legendary Member stay outta tha fiyah Posts: 2229 Thanks received: 1336 Karma: -135
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302143

Buffy wrote: usveinha wrote: Teach your friend how to play, don't break rules, play fair and have fun. it's not that hard. Yeah, but he didn't break any rules? Are you retarded? Nah im just saying.	usveinha Offline Junior Boarder Posts: 177 Thanks received: 115 Karma: 6
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302150

usveinha wrote: Buffy wrote: usveinha wrote: Teach your friend how to play, don't break rules, play fair and have fun. it's not that hard. Yeah, but he didn't break any rules? Are you retarded? Nah im just saying. Saying what? What's the point of making that shitty reply that wouldn't even help the case?	Buffy Offline Gold Boarder ❤️ Rex ❤️ Posts: 2531 Thanks received: 2231 Karma: 1
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302187

jam wrote:

No matter how obvious it looks (which from what I'm reading wasn't too out of the ordinary) you CANNOT warn for ghosting without a confession, there is just no way to prove it so you get evidence and they vote on it in the LT meeting, the warn should definitely be removed and as for the report abuse biosenic did handle the situation wrong so he will likely be told what he should've done but since he is overall a pretty good admin and something like this hasn't happened before as far as I know so I doubt anything else will happen

is this a joke?

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302190

biosenic wrote:

jam wrote:

No matter how obvious it looks (which from what I'm reading wasn't too out of the ordinary) you CANNOT warn for ghosting without a confession, there is just no way to prove it so you get evidence and they vote on it in the LT meeting, the warn should definitely be removed and as for the report abuse biosenic did handle the situation wrong so he will likely be told what he should've done but since he is overall a pretty good admin and something like this hasn't happened before as far as I know so I doubt anything else will happen

is this a joke?

Why would I be joking?

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302193

jam wrote:

biosenic wrote:

jam wrote:

No matter how obvious it looks (which from what I'm reading wasn't too out of the ordinary) you CANNOT warn for ghosting without a confession, there is just no way to prove it so you get evidence and they vote on it in the LT meeting, the warn should definitely be removed and as for the report abuse biosenic did handle the situation wrong so he will likely be told what he should've done but since he is overall a pretty good admin and something like this hasn't happened before as far as I know so I doubt anything else will happen

is this a joke?

Why would I be joking?

It’s just completely wrong... ghosting in prop hunt is WAYY different to ghosting in TTT.

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302194

biosenic wrote:

jam wrote:

biosenic wrote:

jam wrote:

No matter how obvious it looks (which from what I'm reading wasn't too out of the ordinary) you CANNOT warn for ghosting without a confession, there is just no way to prove it so you get evidence and they vote on it in the LT meeting, the warn should definitely be removed and as for the report abuse biosenic did handle the situation wrong so he will likely be told what he should've done but since he is overall a pretty good admin and something like this hasn't happened before as far as I know so I doubt anything else will happen

is this a joke?

Why would I be joking?

It’s just completely wrong... ghosting in prop hunt is WAYY different to ghosting in TTT.

Yeh I made a mistake so I replied to codas post correcting myself

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302196

FREE MY GUY	Kurze Offline Legendary Member Expect me to be straight to the point. Posts: 2234 Thanks received: 1040 Karma: -30
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302198

RuleBreaker163 wrote:

biosenic wrote:

I had collected enough evidence of you guys ghosting as you friend killed me in the most inconspicuous areas of the map. As you were spectating me, your friend walked into the room I was hiding in and eventually looked up to me and killed me. The spot i was in was an un-obvious spot, so there is little chance an average player would kill me without some form of cheating (as in playing unfairly, not hacking).

I then checkspecced you. Your friend killed whoever you were spectating. Isn’t that a bit off? I know what I’m doing as an admin. If you weren’t ghosting, we simply wouldn’t have punished you. It’s the fact that you and your friend were getting unusual amounts of kills, so that raises suspicion.

We then proceeded to check who you were spectating. And simply enough, your friend killed whoever you were spectating.

But, you then went on about how you were not ghosting, and how I can prove that you were ghosting. I answered every question in as much detail as possible. But you kept going on and on. So eventually I had to admin chat mute you as you were annoying goldauraz and I. At the end of the round I admin chat unmuted you as your time being muted was served.

I then left the server because it was late and I wanted to go to bed. (It was 23:10). I did not leave the server just to be a dick and to not be dealt with again; I know what LTAP is.

Ultimately, you have not shown sufficient evidence to support your claim against me. To make this the best you can, include some proof of what happened. Otherwise spthis will be denied as there is no proof.

Have a good day!

Funny how you mention that I need proof, the same goes for you.

You made the report, YOU need evidence, why didn't you take screenshots of the chat, that's not difficult, it will just annoy the dude handling you report

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302199

usveinha wrote: Teach your friend how to play, don't break rules, play fair and have fun. it's not that hard.	Gin Offline Senior Boarder d:-D Posts: 739 Thanks received: 556 Karma: -59
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302205

lol what a joke	Jim_Jam Offline Former Community Manager TTT is my child ❤️ Posts: 8585 Thanks received: 3491 Karma: -32
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302239

Ghosting scum	BCAT Offline Gold Boarder Future deathrun owner Posts: 1632 Thanks received: 665 Karma: -8
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302245

ToBeHonest wrote:

RuleBreaker163 wrote:

biosenic wrote:

I had collected enough evidence of you guys ghosting as you friend killed me in the most inconspicuous areas of the map. As you were spectating me, your friend walked into the room I was hiding in and eventually looked up to me and killed me. The spot i was in was an un-obvious spot, so there is little chance an average player would kill me without some form of cheating (as in playing unfairly, not hacking).

I then checkspecced you. Your friend killed whoever you were spectating. Isn’t that a bit off? I know what I’m doing as an admin. If you weren’t ghosting, we simply wouldn’t have punished you. It’s the fact that you and your friend were getting unusual amounts of kills, so that raises suspicion.

We then proceeded to check who you were spectating. And simply enough, your friend killed whoever you were spectating.

But, you then went on about how you were not ghosting, and how I can prove that you were ghosting. I answered every question in as much detail as possible. But you kept going on and on. So eventually I had to admin chat mute you as you were annoying goldauraz and I. At the end of the round I admin chat unmuted you as your time being muted was served.

I then left the server because it was late and I wanted to go to bed. (It was 23:10). I did not leave the server just to be a dick and to not be dealt with again; I know what LTAP is.

Ultimately, you have not shown sufficient evidence to support your claim against me. To make this the best you can, include some proof of what happened. Otherwise spthis will be denied as there is no proof.

Have a good day!

Funny how you mention that I need proof, the same goes for you.

You made the report, YOU need evidence, why didn't you take screenshots of the chat, that's not difficult, it will just annoy the dude handling you report

Except for the fact that its almost impossible for me to show proof that I wasn't ghosting? what proof could I possibly give? Its not something that chat logs will help so whats the point of that? If your talking about the part where he admin chat muted me, there really isn't a need for it. In fact that part has already been dealt with by the handling staff. When I say biosenic needs proof I mean that he needed more proof to punish me for ghosting, not that he needs proof here for this appeal. The same way I have no evidence that I didn't ghost, as it is almost impossible to obtain, there was not enough evidence on biosenics part to punish me and my friend for ghosting, because that too, is very difficult to obtain.

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302286

normally the one that makes the report is the one that needs evidence. in this scenario that might indeed not really be possible. you also say that getting evidence that someone is ghosting is difficult to obtain, it's actually not. you can see who they spectate. if the person that is being spectated gets killed by their friend, in multiple occasions across different rounds, and behavior like where the person on the hunters team kills the props in rapid succession and seems to know exactly where they are, this would seem like enough proof for ghosting. I was not there, so I can't tell exactly what happened.
also you said you just ignored the pm. if you weren't ghosting, that's where you should have replied and said that you were not, explained why it might seem like ghosting to avoid further confusion.

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302295

MadMagic wrote:

normally the one that makes the report is the one that needs evidence. in this scenario that might indeed not really be possible. you also say that getting evidence that someone is ghosting is difficult to obtain, it's actually not. you can see who they spectate. if the person that is being spectated gets killed by their friend, in multiple occasions across different rounds, and behavior like where the person on the hunters team kills the props in rapid succession and seems to know exactly where they are, this would seem like enough proof for ghosting. I was not there, so I can't tell exactly what happened.
also you said you just ignored the pm. if you weren't ghosting, that's where you should have replied and said that you were not, explained why it might seem like ghosting to avoid further confusion.

That may be true about spectating on multiple occasions, but the interval between the verbal he gave me and the actual warning was very small, about 2 or 3 rounds. I dont know how long or if he suspected me in the rounds beforehand, but he has stated himself in this appeal that -

"I had collected enough evidence of you guys ghosting as you friend killed me in the most inconspicuous areas of the map."

That was when he gave me the verbal warning. It seems like that's not very good evidence especially considering he was one of the last props alive no? Like I said, I don't know when or if he started suspecting me beforehand but thats something that can be checked by the higher ups, no? You can check admin chat logs, because I presume he was talking to the other admin about it, or you can check when he started checking who I spectated? The fact of the matter is that I was on the server for over an hour by the time he started suspecting me. Me and my friends were not causing trouble and he only seemed to start suspecting me after he was killed in his super secret spot. I keep hearing that it was over multiple rounds or that it happened on multiple occasions but how am I supposed to defend myself if I don't even know when or why he started suspecting me? All I know is that he gave me a verbal simply for spectating one of, if not the last props alive.

Also, I do believe that the "proof" of ghosting that you mentioned is quite flawed. If I'm dead as a prop, its not unlikely that I would be looking out for my friend to see if he gets close or not, so how is killing the prop I'm spectating actual valid proof of me ghosting?? Why is spectating the prop that my friend killed such a big deal??? Why would I spectate a prop that no hunters are around over the prop that hunters are around, or that my friend is around? Me and my friend got plenty of kills before the other was even dead, so how is it a problem because I spectate just a few that he killed??? This is why ghosting is such a problem to deal with, and basically took a confession to prove it back in my time of staffing.

The point of me arguing this much is not to get biosenic punished, the point of the report abuse was basically because he admin chat muted unnecessarily, and the handling staff has already dealt with that part, I'm no longer concerned about the report abuse, I'm just trying to get the punishment removed. I truly do believe that it was a false punishment, but I believe it was a genuine mistake on biosenics part. I'm only concerned with the punishment appeal at this point, not the report abuse

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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302341

	Markus Offline Legendary Member Posts: 5339 Thanks received: 1637 Karma: -337
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[Prop Hunt] Report Abuse & Punishment Appeal 3 years 3 months ago #1302618

Hey RuleBreaker163,

After reading your appeal / report and talking to all parties involved I've come to a conclusion. It's common practice for staff members to punish ghosters based on observations over multiple rounds and additional information gained through our administrative commands such as Steam Friends on the server and who the potential ghoster / their friends are spectating at the time. Unfortunately there is no other form of proof that can be collected by the staff member without additional tools. Both biosenic and the other staff member that was observing you at the time have mutually come to the conclusion that your behavior was indicative of ghosting after watching your for multiple rounds, checking your friends and monitoring who you / your friends were spectating. After giving you a verbal warning they continued to observe suspicious behavior which resulted in you receiving an actual warning. As the staff members involved keep insisting that your behavior was indicative of ghosting and you haven't provided any additional proof I unfortunately have to deny your appeal. The staff members were following the usual procedures and haven't broken any major rules / abused their commands. Biosenic has been told to provide players with an alternative form of contacting him before muting them from the admin chat in the future.

Your punishment will not be reduced / removed. No actions will be taken against the staff member.

#Denied