ITzTrain wrote:
Chuteuk wrote:
ITzTrain wrote:
Chuteuk wrote:
ITzTrain wrote:
Chuteuk wrote:
ITzTrain wrote:
Chuteuk wrote:
Trix wrote:
Lets not beat it around the bush the server is p2w and nothing more Chute knows it and we know it, we should focus on how we could gain more players instead of releasing updates or making events trying to keep the current playerbase.
Also there is no more gang wars, its either everyone is allied or no one has the balls to raid or to use items, you could launch a nuke and go afk and you would have a free scu after you comeback.
Thats all due to having lack of players cause nobody wants to play on a server where he is forced to buy boosters after losing a suit, or not being able to obtain anything at all withoud buying boosterpacks.
When i first joined asap i was able to obtain some good bit of cash and a suit or two within couple hours and withoud spending a single penny, i do understand that withoud our donations the community wont get far but find a way to balance the two like other servers.
Trixter, I appreciate what your saying but you are wrong and I thought I would take the time to answer you which hopefully you'll appreciate. The server isn't P2W in any shape or form, infact far from it. But I can see how someone without insider knowledge might think that.
1) Firstly did you know that every single item ever released on ZARP has also had a route to get it for free. Back in the early days of the CM team we've always said we didn't want to be a P2W server like so many others where you can buy a custom job with 1000HP or a custom weapon with 100x damage. Instead every item/feature we've ever added into VIP or Booster Packs has also been available for free. Go ahead think of any item even the most exclusive and yes I can tell you how and when they were available for free. Golden Jugg Suit - Black Friday Wheel tokens were free in every event during the update, Any new case, cases are always available in dozens of different ways e.g. Daily Objectives
2) Far more "P2W" items actually come into the economy for free than they do paid. Take for instance over the past few months we've been running Challenge List and Collectible hunts which have collectively introduced over 1,000 new cases into the economy which in turn has added large numbers of suits and special weapons. This is far far higher than the amount of cases and suits from Booster Packs in the same period.
3) Thirdly and importantly - Nothing in life is free. We'd love to get all of our services, licenses and costs for free but everything comes with a cost. We do have to offer some kind of paid upgrade through the medium of VIP & Booster Packs otherwise it's simply not possible to run the servers. We have multiple dedicated machines with OVH which are the most powerful available in their range, we have additional network costs with OVH, we have another server to run the ZARP website, we have another server to run the FastDL system and the APIs, we have licenses for running software on the web server, licenses for running TCAdmin control panel, TeamSpeak licences, Windows licenses, one-off costs throughout the year. Not to mention the volatile state of the economy over the last few years resulting in price rises for pretty much all of these mentioned. All of this combined is very expensive.
4) We give back where we can. I'd like you to think of another Garry's Mod community that has done more to raise awareness and help with Charitable causes throughout the year. Over the past few years we've supported numerous charities including NHS Charities together (a collection of over 200 Charities), Children in Need & Comic Relief. We haven't just thrown money at them either. We've also developed detailed updates to raise awareness and try to get people talking and helping these charities themselves by adding new items, outfits and features in-game themed around the charities.
I hope that gives you a bit of insight into what we're about and how we operate.
I'm sorry chute, but you are wrong. The server is DEFINITELY P2W, if you consider how difficult it is to gain the items without paying. Sure, you have implemented some free methods of getting them. On events? Well yes, 1 out of like 20 people can get it every time. Daily challenges? Ok sure, after a WEEK we can get ONE case in which we have less than 1% chance of getting a suit or something half decent. I'm sorry, but literally buying 10 (20) boosters on double gets you a cash amount of 4 - 6 BILLION in a matter of seconds. Without V.I.P (20$), it is so shit playing on the server with the jobs nearly always taken up, and the standard printers and stuff being too dogshit to do anything with. If your argument that ZARP is not P2W because you offered some kind of free way (such as a giving a WHOPPING free case when you find FIFTY dynamite sticks which take ages, to just getting a printer from the case or other shit items), then you are clearly delusional
I'm sorry itzTrain but you are completely wrong. In terms of events yes only one person can win the prize however what would you suggest everyone in the event wins a case or a wheel token? This is a very fair way of doing it and results in large numbers of cases and prizes getting given out, far higher than that from any Booster Pack/VIP deal.
Daily Challenges - Over 520,000 unqiue Steam accounts have gained at least one item/prize from using the Daily Objectives system. Again this is far higher than the amount of people who have bought Booster Packs/VIP - There's also been tens of thousands of the top case prizes been given away during updates. Resulting in huge numbers of suits and cases being given out for free, again many more than have been paid for. The case chances are the same if you get one for free or paid for so no idea what you mean by that.
We recently changed the VIP job limits so those with VIP don't count towards the limit, which was a Community Council suggestion. You clearly haven't even checked this.
Regarding the Dynamite Hunt and other Challenge List/Collectibles event. We're not delusional at all infact quite the opposite. In the last 2 months worth of these events over 1000 cases have been obtained for free from these collectible hunts, far more than have been obtained from any paid method.
Nonetheless, you cannot deny that buying booster packs gives a person a massive advantage, as I said just from 10 (20) boosters, you can get 4-6B of SSRP cash instantly. You are making comparisons trying to disprove the server of P2W using irrelevant methods. It doesn't matter how many cases have been obtained for free if there is a limit to the benefit an individual can gain. Regardless of the 1000 cases obtained from free collectable hunts, it does not change the fact that I can only obtain ONE case using this method, and someone who purchases booster packs using money can, for example, obtain 20. Putting him at a greater advantage than me instantly (Through the use of REAL money), of about 4-6 billion. With this in context, even if I were to be maximising my free benefit by (doing daily objectives for a WEEK, looking for 50 dynamite sticks, entering each event I can trying to win a case), It is still fact I am severely disadvantaged to the ones who buy boosterpacks, making my efforts seem pointless and boring. ZARP during 2016 was still alright because buying boosterpacks or VIP did not significantly give them a complete edge in terms of combat or playing the game. I remember how even without scopeboost, it was possible to beat players who had morphine+scopeboost. Now though, is a different story. A new player, cannot cope with a player with a 10B mummy suit and a gluon gun, which would be impossible for a player to obtain without buying booster packs UNLESS they spend an embarrassing amount of time on the server.
Could you read point 3 of my post regarding the costs of the server. Yes we do need to offer something for people to buy or we simply cannot run the server.
How is it irrelevant at all? You are trying to say the server is P2W yet I have shown you how players have achieved the same items in a much higher quantity for free.
1) The fact you need to implement these booster pack and VIP deals in order to run the server is fair enough. However, Regardless of the necessity or need for these boosterpack deals does not change the fact that people who buy booster packs can much more easily obtain items and wealth than others. If this gap of wealth potential between a guy who "Pays to Win" (since he literally is paying to gain an advantage using IRL cash which he obtains through the boosters), and a person who doesn't spend money were insignificant, there would be no problems. But it just is fact that boosters provide a massive advantage, and thus can be regarded as PAY TO WIN. I do not understand why this concept is so hard to understand or admit. You are denying this but literally a new player can spend 70$ in double booster deals (plenty of people do this), they can instantly gain about 10B INSTANTLY just like that without playing on the server. On the other hand, it would take quite a long time to get that cash without spending money.
2) What you have shown me is a sum of ALL the cases which have been achieved by ALL the players who have participated in the daily objectives or dynamite junt (or similar). Of course, the sum is significant since you are taking into account everybody who did it. What you are neglecting though, is that this option is available to those who buy boosterpacks too, so assuming everything is equal, the P2W guy buying boosterpacks is still at an advantage. Ill give you an example to make this simple: In a gym, lets say two identical guys are offered 3 free steroids per week (compare this to the free cases one can obtain from events, daily objective, etc). Now, in the cornershop next door, they sell steroids for 5$ a piece, and 35$ for 10 pieces. Guy A has the money to buy the steroids and does, but Guy B does not want to buy steroids because it will harm his health. Assuming the more steroids you use the bigger you become, it is obvious to note that guy A HAS gotten an advantage over guy B, through the use of money. According to your principle, you are arguing that guy A is not advantaged although he is using more steroids. Does this make sense? No it doesn't. And according to you, it would make sense to say that "no, player A does not have an advantage over player B, because look! In the gym there was more total number of steroids obtained from the free "3 a day" than the steroids which were purchased! This does not change the fact that guy A has an advantage over guy B since he purchase more steroids. I hope this was simple enough for you to understand
1) I really don't understand your issues. You say that it is fair enough that we need to offer Booster Packs and VIP to cover the running costs but at the same time are still taking issue with it. I have also shown you how you can achieve the same items for free so whilst there is an advantage you can also achieve that advantage for free. If you have another way we can cover the running costs of the community then please do let us know.
2) There's always going to be the player who buys a lot or the player who grinds all day, and uses alts etc. Whilst it is possible to pay and gain an advantage and get more, it is also possible to do the exact same thing for free and that is my point. However both of these examples are not really fair as they don't represent what normally happens. That's why we look at the overall numbers, and on average far more cases and suits are coming in from free sources than paid ones.
1) Once again, fair enough you need to cover server costs, I just don't understand how you are not admitting to something right in your FACE, trying to disprove me with numbers you pulled out of your ass. You cant be serious when saying "Over 520,000 unqiue Steam accounts have gained at least one item/prize from using the Daily Objectives system". There is literally 131205 players registered on gametrackers for S1, and like 40000 for s3. I am just getting pissed at the part where you try to disprove the server of being P2W.
2) "Whilst it is possible to pay and gain an advantage and get more, it is also possible to do the exact same thing for free and that is my point" . Second part is just wrong. You cant do the exact same thing for free is the problem. You literally proved my point saying its P2W lol. You agreed just here that its "possible to pay and gain an advantage". This is the definition of P2W
If your going to start insulting and being rude itzTrain then I can't take what you have to say seriously anymore. I have taken time out of my day to answer all of your points and try to explain how were doing things in calm and collected manner. If you wan't to come and talk to me on TeamSpeak we can continue the conversation, otherwise please do not continue this discussion.
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Chuteuk
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