TOPIC: (Discussion) What made you leave or stay?

Trix wrote:
Trixter, I appreciate what your saying but you are wrong and I thought I would take the time to answer you which hopefully you'll appreciate. The server isn't P2W in any shape or form, infact far from it. But I can see how someone without insider knowledge might think that.

1) Firstly did you know that every single item ever released on ZARP has also had a route to get it for free. Back in the early days of the CM team we've always said we didn't want to be a P2W server like so many others where you can buy a custom job with 1000HP or a custom weapon with 100x damage. Instead every item/feature we've ever added into VIP or Booster Packs has also been available for free. Go ahead think of any item even the most exclusive and yes I can tell you how and when they were available for free. Golden Jugg Suit - Black Friday Wheel tokens were free in every event during the update, Any new case, cases are always available in dozens of different ways e.g. Daily Objectives

2) Far more "P2W" items actually come into the economy for free than they do paid. Take for instance over the past few months we've been running Challenge List and Collectible hunts which have collectively introduced over 1,000 new cases into the economy which in turn has added large numbers of suits and special weapons. This is far far higher than the amount of cases and suits from Booster Packs in the same period.

3) Thirdly and importantly - Nothing in life is free. We'd love to get all of our services, licenses and costs for free but everything comes with a cost. We do have to offer some kind of paid upgrade through the medium of VIP & Booster Packs otherwise it's simply not possible to run the servers. We have multiple dedicated machines with OVH which are the most powerful available in their range, we have additional network costs with OVH, we have another server to run the ZARP website, we have another server to run the FastDL system and the APIs, we have licenses for running software on the web server, licenses for running TCAdmin control panel, TeamSpeak licences, Windows licenses, one-off costs throughout the year. Not to mention the volatile state of the economy over the last few years resulting in price rises for pretty much all of these mentioned. All of this combined is very expensive.

4) We give back where we can. I'd like you to think of another Garry's Mod community that has done more to raise awareness and help with Charitable causes throughout the year. Over the past few years we've supported numerous charities including NHS Charities together (a collection of over 200 Charities), Children in Need & Comic Relief. We haven't just thrown money at them either. We've also developed detailed updates to raise awareness and try to get people talking and helping these charities themselves by adding new items, outfits and features in-game themed around the charities.

I hope that gives you a bit of insight into what we're about and how we operate.

Chuteuk wrote:
I'm sorry chute, but you are wrong. The server is DEFINITELY P2W, if you consider how difficult it is to gain the items without paying. Sure, you have implemented some free methods of getting them. On events? Well yes, 1 out of like 20 people can get it every time. Daily challenges? Ok sure, after a WEEK we can get ONE case in which we have less than 1% chance of getting a suit or something half decent. I'm sorry, but literally buying 10 (20) boosters on double gets you a cash amount of 4 - 6 BILLION in a matter of seconds. Without V.I.P (20$), it is so shit playing on the server with the jobs nearly always taken up, and the standard printers and stuff being too dogshit to do anything with. If your argument that ZARP is not P2W because you offered some kind of free way (such as a giving a WHOPPING free case when you find FIFTY dynamite sticks which take ages, to just getting a printer from the case or other shit items), then you are clearly delusional

[...] I am also writing my concerns as well, Lead Team for SSRP needs to be tweaked. It should be promotions based on your role and your job as a Administrator and not just because you’re friends with LT, LT should be active and looking at potential LT staff other than sitting in spacers talking about my big shlong.

Jordz wrote:
Let me just clarify something since I've seen multiple people on this thread saying stuff along these lines. Getting promoted into a lead team position is of course primarily based on your quality as a staff member. Report counts, in-game activity, experience and attitude are the most basic factors that a potential candidate needs to focus on. If you're not a good staff member you won't get accepted no matter how much you "sit around in spacers" and "talk about your big shlong". Most candidates that apply for lead team positions are already good in that sense so we usually don't talk about it that much and it's rarely the primary denial reason. There is more to being a good lead team candidate tho.

Getting promoted into a lead team position is a way bigger deal than getting promoted from Moderator to Admin. You get a lot more responsibilities and a lot more powers. Your set of tasks and the stuff you need to focus on once you get accepted is a lot different. You have to be able to integrate yourself into the current lead team and you have to be able to approach staff members in a calm and objective manner, even when things get out of hand. Doing a good job as an Admin by itself just isn't enough to get promoted. You need to show that you can live up to these new responsibilities and that you can be trusted with your new powers. As a lead team member you're expected to represent the entire staff team. The lead team needs to know what you're like. They need to know if you're up to the task. A certain degree of interaction with the lead team just needs to happen leading up to your promotion and we certainly expect you to stick around after you get accepted.

Interacting with the lead team doesn't necessarily mean you have to sit in a spacer with them for hours on end. There are a lot of ways on how you can interact with them. From helping them with their weekly events to straight up helping them with training sessions or even training a few staff members yourself under Head Admin supervision, there are a lot of ways to show that you're ready. Even helping out in the discord staff channel, handling a lot of reports and appeals helps you out on that note. Of course we also expect you to be on teamspeak once in a while so we can get to know you but we certainly don't expect you to spend multiple hours a day in a spacer with us.

We are constantly looking for new potential lead team candidates as it's in our best interest to keep the lead team active and big enough to stand up to the task of managing the staff team but at the end of the day it's down to the candidates to leave an impression. If you've got any questions about this process feel free to message me on discord (Martin#6573) or join us on teamspeak for a talk.

Jordz wrote:
Let me just clarify something since I've seen multiple people on this thread saying stuff along these lines. Getting promoted into a lead team position is of course primarily based on your quality as a staff member. Report counts, in-game activity, experience and attitude are the most basic factors that a potential candidate needs to focus on. If you're not a good staff member you won't get accepted no matter how much you "sit around in spacers" and "talk about your big shlong". Most candidates that apply for lead team positions are already good in that sense so we usually don't talk about it that much and it's rarely the primary denial reason. There is more to being a good lead team candidate tho.

Getting promoted into a lead team position is a way bigger deal than getting promoted from Moderator to Admin. You get a lot more responsibilities and a lot more powers. Your set of tasks and the stuff you need to focus on once you get accepted is a lot different. You have to be able to integrate yourself into the current lead team and you have to be able to approach staff members in a calm and objective manner, even when things get out of hand. Doing a good job as an Admin by itself just isn't enough to get promoted. You need to show that you can live up to these new responsibilities and that you can be trusted with your new powers. As a lead team member you're expected to represent the entire staff team. The lead team needs to know what you're like. They need to know if you're up to the task. A certain degree of interaction with the lead team just needs to happen leading up to your promotion and we certainly expect you to stick around after you get accepted.

Interacting with the lead team doesn't necessarily mean you have to sit in a spacer with them for hours on end. There are a lot of ways on how you can interact with them. From helping them with their weekly events to straight up helping them with training sessions or even training a few staff members yourself under Head Admin supervision, there are a lot of ways to show that you're ready. Even helping out in the discord staff channel, handling a lot of reports and appeals helps you out on that note. Of course we also expect you to be on teamspeak once in a while so we can get to know you but we certainly don't expect you to spend multiple hours a day in a spacer with us.

We are constantly looking for new potential lead team candidates as it's in our best interest to keep the lead team active and big enough to stand up to the task of managing the staff team but at the end of the day it's down to the candidates to leave an impression. If you've got any questions about this process feel free to message me on discord (Martin#6573) or join us on teamspeak for a talk.

The server is not p2w, its pay to unlock stuff other people can unlock but do it at a much quicker pace which gives you an advantage over them.

Smol wrote:
Sounds like the definition of p2w to me

Nonetheless, you cannot deny that buying booster packs gives a person a massive advantage, as I said just from 10 (20) boosters, you can get 4-6B of SSRP cash instantly. You are making comparisons trying to disprove the server of P2W using irrelevant methods. It doesn't matter how many cases have been obtained for free if there is a limit to the benefit an individual can gain. Regardless of the 1000 cases obtained from free collectable hunts, it does not change the fact that I can only obtain ONE case using this method, and someone who purchases booster packs using money can, for example, obtain 20. Putting him at a greater advantage than me instantly (Through the use of REAL money), of about 4-6 billion. With this in context, even if I were to be maximising my free benefit by (doing daily objectives for a WEEK, looking for 50 dynamite sticks, entering each event I can trying to win a case), It is still fact I am severely disadvantaged to the ones who buy boosterpacks, making my efforts seem pointless and boring. ZARP during 2016 was still alright because buying boosterpacks or VIP did not significantly give them a complete edge in terms of combat or playing the game. I remember how even without scopeboost, it was possible to beat players who had morphine+scopeboost. Now though, is a different story. A new player, cannot cope with a player with a 10B mummy suit and a gluon gun, which would be impossible for a player to obtain without buying booster packs UNLESS they spend an embarrassing amount of time on the server.

ITzTrain wrote:
Could you read point 3 of my post regarding the costs of the server. Yes we do need to offer something for people to buy or we simply cannot run the server.

How is it irrelevant at all? You are trying to say the server is P2W yet I have shown you how players have achieved the same items in a much higher quantity for free.

Nonetheless, you cannot deny that buying booster packs gives a person a massive advantage, as I said just from 10 (20) boosters, you can get 4-6B of SSRP cash instantly. You are making comparisons trying to disprove the server of P2W using irrelevant methods. It doesn't matter how many cases have been obtained for free if there is a limit to the benefit an individual can gain. Regardless of the 1000 cases obtained from free collectable hunts, it does not change the fact that I can only obtain ONE case using this method, and someone who purchases booster packs using money can, for example, obtain 20. Putting him at a greater advantage than me instantly (Through the use of REAL money), of about 4-6 billion. With this in context, even if I were to be maximising my free benefit by (doing daily objectives for a WEEK, looking for 50 dynamite sticks, entering each event I can trying to win a case), It is still fact I am severely disadvantaged to the ones who buy boosterpacks, making my efforts seem pointless and boring. ZARP during 2016 was still alright because buying boosterpacks or VIP did not significantly give them a complete edge in terms of combat or playing the game. I remember how even without scopeboost, it was possible to beat players who had morphine+scopeboost. Now though, is a different story. A new player, cannot cope with a player with a 10B mummy suit and a gluon gun, which would be impossible for a player to obtain without buying booster packs UNLESS they spend an embarrassing amount of time on the server.

Chuteuk wrote:
From my perspective and I'd assume some people hold the same views, you're getting the chance of an item. Every thing you get from events, dynamite hunts or w/a tends to be cases, which gives you a 1% or 2% chance to get a suit. When you can buy boosterpacks and claim 10 of them and instantly get a suit, or something similar as Zarp has done in this past.

I completely understand that the server needs to make money but it was never like this in the past, sure people still complained but you have to literally keep your PC on for days to get any amount of money on the server now, or like I stated. Win an event, do a hunt or such to get a case which contains the chance of getting an item. Personally, I don't find this rewarding at all as it doesn't encourage you to actually play the basic fundamentals of what DarkRP is, printing, making drugs, raiding etc.

ITzTrain wrote:

The economy goes up on every server at some point and items will go up in price, just the way it is. the CM team have obviously noticed that something has to change and that's why they have given away hundreds of cases during updates such as the Dynamite hunt (whatever it's called) and the hula event to give new and old players something to work for to get "new" items. Thousands of cases have also been achieved through the Daily Objectives and there's not much more they can do to help new players out.

As Chute said, they have things to pay and I bet they're not the cheapest things to deal with, so there has to be some sort of method for people to use to gain items but also support Zarp because some people do not want the community to fully die out. I can agree that sometimes the booster packs are a little bit too much and the way VIP works, it needs a bit of a rework.

VIP was very usefull back in the days to be able to use the VIP printers and to bypass the job limits which was like a must. But now, neither of those are actually useful so I definitely think they should take an extra look at that.

Overall the server isn't "P2W" because you can play the server and gain a lot of things but pay if you want to speed up the process instead of going full grind-mode. I know many people who hasn't spent a single dollar on the server but managed to build themselves up and managed to make themselves known for being friendly and good players. And I know people who only spent their money on the server to get really rich and that's fine, it's just their way of making money on the server(s).

ITzTrain wrote:
Could you read point 3 of my post regarding the costs of the server. Yes we do need to offer something for people to buy or we simply cannot run the server.

How is it irrelevant at all? You are trying to say the server is P2W yet I have shown you how players have achieved the same items in a much higher quantity for free.

Chuteuk wrote:
1) The fact you need to implement these booster pack and VIP deals in order to run the server is fair enough. However, Regardless of the necessity or need for these boosterpack deals does not change the fact that people who buy booster packs can much more easily obtain items and wealth than others. If this gap of wealth potential between a guy who "Pays to Win" (since he literally is paying to gain an advantage using IRL cash which he obtains through the boosters), and a person who doesn't spend money were insignificant, there would be no problems. But it just is fact that boosters provide a massive advantage, and thus can be regarded as PAY TO WIN. I do not understand why this concept is so hard to understand or admit. You are denying this but literally a new player can spend 70$ in double booster deals (plenty of people do this), they can instantly gain about 10B INSTANTLY just like that without playing on the server. On the other hand, it would take quite a long time to get that cash without spending money.

2) What you have shown me is a sum of ALL the cases which have been achieved by ALL the players who have participated in the daily objectives or dynamite junt (or similar). Of course, the sum is significant since you are taking into account everybody who did it. What you are neglecting though, is that this option is available to those who buy boosterpacks too, so assuming everything is equal, the P2W guy buying boosterpacks is still at an advantage. Ill give you an example to make this simple: In a gym, lets say two identical guys are offered 3 free steroids per week (compare this to the free cases one can obtain from events, daily objective, etc). Now, in the cornershop next door, they sell steroids for 5$ a piece, and 35$ for 10 pieces. Guy A has the money to buy the steroids and does, but Guy B does not want to buy steroids because it will harm his health. Assuming the more steroids you use the bigger you become, it is obvious to note that guy A HAS gotten an advantage over guy B, through the use of money. According to your principle, you are arguing that guy A is not advantaged although he is using more steroids. Does this make sense? No it doesn't. And according to you, it would make sense to say that "no, player A does not have an advantage over player B, because look! In the gym there was more total number of steroids obtained from the free "3 a day" than the steroids which were purchased! This does not change the fact that guy A has an advantage over guy B since he purchase more steroids. I hope this was simple enough for you to understand

Ezeh wrote:
Bro that's literally P2W, people have to grind for days leaving their PC's on and shit, when someone can literally buy 10 boosters and make more money. Just because you can obtain the items by playing doesn't mean it isn't pay to win, as it takes fucking ages to get them and like I said, buying boosters instantly cuts that shit out creating an unfair advantage, this isn't even including the crazy golden giveaways for buying boosters.

You're paying real cash for items that give you a huge advantage, how is that not pay to win?