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TOPIC: [TTT] Yikes! warn appeal
[TTT] Yikes! warn appeal 4 years 11 months ago #1183134
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Name - Yikes!
STEAM-ID - STEAM_0:1:68575193 Staff Members Name - NepGear, but moreso Darling Warning Reason - Joining a gunfight. Server - TTT Story/Situation (What Happened?) - I was by the lighhouse, Darling and Chesping were close to the centre of the map/near the one of the exits of the cave, going towards the back of the T room. Chespin says something along the lines of: C:"What the hell? Oh, it's-- KOS Darling, KOS darling." D:"Excuse me? KOS Chespin!" I then start going towards the direction of where they're going, because I remember seeing Chespin walk towards there. I see Darling then shooting Chespin, and without hesitation, I shoot Darling and I kill him because I'm a straight-up ace and I can't be competed against because I'm the best. Regardless of my aggressive assertiveness, Darling dies, and shortly after reports me saying I joined a gunfight. I reply saying "You were KOSed, sorry!" and think nothing more of it. To my surprise, he doesn't forgive the report, and a chat screen pops up. "Oh boy, here we go." I think to myself. And how right was I to think that. I get told that apparently, despite it not even being in the rules (or as nepnep said, it was, it's just extremely poorly worded) it's still a punishable offence and it's enforced. The rule is : Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] "If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor, you must wait before joining in the fight until one player dies and they either; identify the body/the round ends/you question them." As I stated to them during the chat, them being in a gunfight was completely coincidental: they could've been having a tea-party I would've still shot Darling (him first, because he was KOSed first, and only then Chespin, if by chance Darling turns out to be innocent) due to me going off purely by the KOS that was said before and not the gunfight. They then said that a KOS exchange is basically a gunfight and should be punished as such, to which I replied that it's not written anywhere that it is, and me, along with anyone else should definitely not be punished for a rule that isn't even on the list of rules. I then gave them an example of another scenario, that included another player being punished for a rule that is not even written down, same situation as me. Player was "AndysFleshlight" and the admin is unknown. Andy, said that he got punished for "not announcing the T traps that then killed his T buddy" and got punished for RDM. Both Darling and Nep said Andy should've reported the admin that did this. They said an admin should be reported for punishing someone for a rule that's not written down. Ironic huh. PS: To the admin handling this, please read the full chatlog that I pasted below. Extra Information - Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] NepNep: so NepNep: I got told NepNep: to tell you that you joined gunfight NepNep: which is true NepNep: the way how it gets handled got changed a bit NepNep: in the meantime when you were gone NepNep: bc of one great HA NepNep: that got salty about this once Yikes: But Nep NepNep: and decided to change it NepNep: yes Yikes: Where is it said in the rules NepNep: no where NepNep: thats the best thing isnt it Yikes: So I didn't NepNep: the HA was so good Yikes: join a gunfight NepNep: that he didnt even feel the need to change something on that Darling: Yikes I'm so sorry. NepNep: except how we handle that Darling: In the words of a previous SA Darling: "It's almost like saying common sense would be if it was stated in the rules" NepNep: well ye Yikes: I think the rules, SPECIFICALLY in TTT have to be AS BLACK AND WHITE as humanly possible, due to the nature of the game being so complicated NepNep: we changed it to this NepNep: this is how it is getting handled at the moment Yikes: To what? NepNep: if you have complaints about that go to jim jam or a LT and ask them to change the rule xd Yikes: Well I have no problems as long as theres no actual punishment NepNep: that joining in on a kos while they are fighting that this is joining gunfight Yikes: You can be told that was a dick move Darling: If 2 people are kosed Darling: you can't tell which one is the traitor. NepNep: ye, but the HA wanted it to be punishable Darling: You have no proof I am you have no proof he is Darling: So why would you shoot? Yikes: I kill the 1st peson who got KOSed Yikes: Yes, that's the thing Yikes: It's JUST like joining a gunfight Darling: I don't care just understand how the rules are now. Darling: Close the report NepNep: If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor NepNep: like NepNep: the rule is fine even Yikes: But then it should be stated that Yikes: All it takes is an addition of like one sentence NepNep: it is Yikes: About a gunfight Yikes: Not KOSes NepNep: like NepNep: when they are fighting they are fighting NepNep: it doesnt matter if they kos each other then Yikes: Nep, I understand what you're saying, and I fully aggree with you NepNep: ye I know Yikes: But if you want to actually enforce these things NepNep: they could like mention it as well Yikes: You need to write it down, otherwise it's meaningless Yikes: You CANNOT tell someone off for doign somethign that is not against the rules Yikes: because it's not against the rules NepNep: well it basically is Yikes: Let's take this scenario for example Yikes: Exactly, it BASICALLY is NepNep: its just shitty described imo Yikes: So why not just basically add it? NepNep: I dont know Yikes: I follow the rules as they are written Yikes: It'd be dumb to do any otherwise NepNep: but I cant do that anyways xd Yikes: Today, especially Yikes: Take this scenario for example NepNep: you need to go to a LT member or Jim jam NepNep: I know what you mean NepNep: and I agree on it NepNep: but I wasnt the one who changed it Yikes: Today, AndysFleshlight I think his name is Yikes: Kept saying in chat "Irish is an RDMER!!!" NepNep: and I am currently not in the position to change it as well Yikes: And I asked him "Why?" Darling: Fighting and KOS are basically syns Yikes: He said "I died to his traps, he didn't announce them, means he RDMed Yikes: Darling, key word is basically Darling: There is not key word. Yikes: If it's not written it cannot be my fault Yikes: Let me finish the story though Darling: That's like saying because it Yikes: I then said "Andy, that's not RDM, because a traitor doesn't need to announce them" Yikes: "But I got warned and slayed by an admin for the same thing" Darling: Then is he need's to report the admin lol. Yikes: I told him that NepNep: lul which dumbass admin did that xd Yikes: He said he wont, I'm assuming cuz of his application Yikes: Idk check his repsheet Yikes: Either way, as this stands, this is entirely not my fault. If you want a rule, to be properly enforced, you need to add it to the rules Darling: Using that logic means NepNep: but the thing is NepNep: if we go by that logic Darling: If something is not DIRECTLY STATED it's allowed. Darling: Which is just wrong. NepNep: that this scenario would be rdm as well NepNep: cause it is not stated anywhere Yikes: Nep, what do you mean NepNep: the example with andy Yikes: Darling, that's exactly what that means NepNep: it is stated in the rule Yikes: That's how the LAW works lol NepNep: its just worded soo poorly NepNep: that it is hard to understand it that way Yikes: It's worded around an actual gunfight NepNep: which does include this as well Darling: It's server rules. Darling: Not a law. NepNep: I agree that it should be stated more obvious Darling: Law put's people in prison Yikes: But Yikes: For Yikes: ok it lagged NepNep: that everyone who read it can understand it without reading it 3 times Darling: breaking server rules gets you slayed. NepNep: but it is stated NepNep: and it is the way how we enforce it Yikes: For me, Darling shooting Chespin I believe, was not even in question. It was coincidence. I was going purely off of KOSes. NepNep: so you didnt see them having a gunfight? Yikes: I did, but as I said, it's meaningless as I was going purely off KOSes. NepNep: but you still saw that they were fighting NepNep: so you joined in on the gunfight NepNep: which is punishable NepNep: as I said NepNep: if you have any complains about this Yikes: Btw don't close the chat immediately Yikes: I gotta do something Yikes: before you do NepNep: go to a LT member or jim jam and ask them if they could change the rule a bit to make it more clear NepNep: or make a suggestion on the forum Yikes: I've done that a trillion times when I was admin here NepNep: oof Yikes: I've also done THAT a trillion times when I was admin NepNep: well maybe ask jim jam Yikes: Didn't do anything. 2 years later it's still the same. Darling: Understand yikes. Darling: This is looked at as common sense amoung the staff team. NepNep: he seems to like you so he might actually bring it up Yikes: Let me understand this clearer Yikes: A presumed innocent KOSes a random person, cuz lets say he walked past an unidd body Yikes: And someone now kills the guy who got KOSed Yikes: that someone is liable to be punished for joining a gunfight Yikes: correct? Darling: No. NepNep: no? Darling: Because the other person did not KOS back. Darling: So it's not a gunfight. Darling: The other person is not actively denying. Yikes: Ok, then not the unid'd body Yikes: Wait no Yikes: it is a gunfight Yikes: guy a shoots guy b Yikes: guy c shoots guy a Yikes: that's not joining a gunfight? NepNep: that would be NepNep: if no one of them died and got ided NepNep: ye Darling: Guy C does not have a valid reason to shoot guy A NepNep: but how does that reffer to your example? Yikes: ok then what about this Yikes: guy a shoots guy b Yikes: guy c this time shoots guy b Yikes: joined? Darling: Yes. Darling: Unless Darling: Guy a is detective. Darling: Same thing goes for the latter btw Darling: In your last example Yikes: Yea exactly Darling: if guy B is a detective it's allowed. Yikes: So this is now, defined as a joined gunfight Yikes: No detectives Yikes: And a KOS is (keyword) BASICALLY a gunfight Darling: If there is no detective again Darling: Guy C has no reason to shoot at guy B Yikes: A new example : A very common situation. Saw a dude walk past an unidentified body. I kos him. He gets killed. The person that killed him, following my KOS, joined a gunfight. Yikes: This, according to you, is true. NepNep: no because you used the keyword shoot NepNep: instead of kos NepNep: if you kos someone NepNep: and that guy doesnt kos back Yikes: But a few minutes ago you said a KOS is pretty much like a gunfight NepNep: and he ends up getting killed its not joining gunfight Darling: KOS in return NepNep: but if the guy instead of doing nothing Darling: is like a gunfight Darling: ^ NepNep: koses back NepNep: its joining a gunfight NepNep: you example didnt even use the word kos to describe anything Yikes: Well Yikes: how Yikes: the HELL Yikes: am I or anyone else NepNep: you just asked us if that guy shoot that guy and the third guy joins in, if that is joining gunifght Yikes: is supposed to know that Darling: Yes because the guy the joined in had no reason NepNep: I dont agree with it fully myself NepNep: but like Darling: As he has no proof. NepNep: that is just how we enforce Yikes: How comes a KOS changes to a gun fight once its said back but not just when its initially said. Yikes: So in the KOS he'd also have no proof Darling: Who said you had to follow it? Yikes: Hes just going off what some person said Yikes: The gamemode, I don't HAVE to, but I'm trying to have fun and kill traitors as an innocent Yikes: But you're saying KOSes are now RDMs because the person who follows it RDMed, due to lack of proof by the killer following the KSO Yikes: KOS* Darling: No because me and chespin were shooting at eachother when you shot me. Darling: That's why it's joining. Yikes: How comes killing someone undera blanket reason is bad Yikes: but punishing someone for a blanket rule that doesn't even cover what you did is good? Yikes: But you got KOSed prior to that. Darling: No I did not. Darling: I shot at him which is why he kosed me. Darling: And you did not see that. Yikes: Once I hear a KOS on someone - I press TAB, Mark the KOSed person as Kill, and once I see him he's getting killed. Unless he getsproven somehow. Yikes: Yes, I didn't see that. What I did hear is a KOS. Just like any other KOS I hear 5 times in a round, and follow every single one of them and have no problems with it NepNep: so imma repeat that for the last time now Yikes: Do you both seriously stand behind and believe in this non existant rule that you're both defending? NepNep: it is Darling: Nepgear does not. NepNep: you can literally Darling: I don't agree with nepgear. NepNep: well NepNep: ye Darling: I stand by it perfectly fine. NepNep: but the scenatio that happened NepNep: is conisdered joining gunfight NepNep: you can literally ask any staff member about it Yikes: What if I jump 4 times in a row? What if some other admin says "it's not in the rules but imma punish you for it cuz its comon sense not to do that" Darling: And on top of that this case you are arguing is not even realivant because what actually got you here was a literal gunfight. NepNep: that would be just dumb NepNep: ngl NepNep: but ye Darling: I was shooting at chespin and he was shooting back. Darling: That was a literal gunfight. NepNep: if you got any complaints about it NepNep: go to jim jam NepNep: or an LT member Yikes: Exactly nep, it'd be dumb, as this is here NepNep: add me on steam NepNep: we can talk on steam further xd Yikes: Remember when you said Andy should report the admin that warned him? NepNep: yes Yikes: What that admin did was punish him for a rule that is not there NepNep: yes NepNep: but the problem here is Yikes: It SHOULD be there, I kind of agree with it, however he got punished. NepNep: what I said multiple times NepNep: it is there NepNep: its just worded poorly Darling: Me and nep are arguing about this. Darling: Just talk with him all you want. Darling: I've dried this conversation as there is nothing more to say. Darling: You get the point and yet are still arguing about it I never made the rule I just enforce it as it is meant to be. NepNep: I know that the rule got enforced different NepNep: back then Yikes: A rule that isn't there NepNep: I know that this stupid HA did not feel to mention it that we changed it NepNep: we changed the way we handle that* Darling: The HA who did change is long gone. NepNep: there is nothing I can do about it honestly NepNep: I tried talking to darling to leave it off NepNep: bc you probably didnt knew it got changed Yikes: What W Darling: Boneaggot. Yikes: What is it exactly that got changed? NepNep: the way we handle this kind of situations NepNep: like back then NepNep: it was allowed to join on this NepNep: if someone got kosed NepNep: but then as I said a certain HA came around NepNep: got killed because of that and got salty and told the staff team to handle it differetnyl Yikes: So you changed the way you handle a situation instead of making a rule clearer by editing a forum post? NepNep: yep that is what that HA did Yikes: But then where's the limit? NepNep: limit? Yikes: I'm in trouble for a rule that is not there. Yikes: Where can this stop? Darling: I said. Darling: Like NepNep: it is Darling: I don't know Darling: Maybe NepNep: but Yikes: Can you quote it? NepNep: as i said Darling: 40 mintues ago NepNep: it is worded poorly Darling: That I did not care and you were off the hook. Yikes: I care though Yikes: I don't care about me at all NepNep: If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor, you must wait before joining in the fight until one player dies and they either Yikes: but another person can be in my shoes right now NepNep: there NepNep: you can read that in there NepNep: its just worded poorly NepNep: and he thought it was fine NepNep: the way it is Yikes: And it being poorly is somehow the regular players fault? NepNep: I mean, most of the people know that NepNep: and if they are getting punished for joining gunfight Yikes: And not someone who has the power to bring it up in a meeting or ask the person above on the totem pole to edit a forum post NepNep: they didnt knew about this whole joining gunfight thing NepNep: well if we take it like that NepNep: why dont you suggest it or make a post NepNep: cause that is the same power NepNep: than I have NepNep: literally Yikes: Why don't I get punished for pointing a gun at someone? To someone else, it could be considered T bait. NepNep: like NepNep: literally NepNep: I got enough NepNep: we explained it often enough Yikes: Because it should concern me a lot less than it should you NepNep: I am done NepNep: if you got complains about this NepNep: go to a LT or jim jam NepNep: I told you NepNep: I cant do something about it NepNep: end NepNep: bye This chat has been closed by NepNep. |
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The topic has been locked.
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[TTT] Yikes! warn appeal 4 years 11 months ago #1183135
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I said in chat I removed the warn. If it is still there it's because remove warn did not work and I will take it off shortly.
Edit, the warn is gone. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Darling.
The topic has been locked.
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[TTT] Yikes! warn appeal 4 years 11 months ago #1183136
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As I already told you over steam. That was my fault that I didnt see that darling said he lets you off the hook and then proceeded to punish you. Darling literally screamed at me after that and I removed the aslay quickly after that and Darling removed the warn from what he told me
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The topic has been locked.
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[TTT] Yikes! warn appeal 4 years 11 months ago #1183137
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The warn was already removed, so this will be accepted. I will also be looking into wording the rule differently and making some additions to it so something like this can be avoided in the future.
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Ex - TTT Server Owner
Ex - TF2 HA, Prophunt SA Ex - SSRP Administrator
The topic has been locked.
The following user(s) said Thank You: eddie.
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