"If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor, you must wait before joining in the fight until one player dies and they either; identify the body/the round ends/you question them."

NepNep: so
NepNep: I got told
NepNep: to tell you that you joined gunfight
NepNep: which is true
NepNep: the way how it gets handled got changed a bit
NepNep: in the meantime when you were gone
NepNep: bc of one great HA
NepNep: that got salty about this once
Yikes: But Nep
NepNep: and decided to change it
NepNep: yes
Yikes: Where is it said in the rules
NepNep: no where
NepNep: thats the best thing isnt it
Yikes: So I didn't
NepNep: the HA was so good
Yikes: join a gunfight
NepNep: that he didnt even feel the need to change something on that
Darling: Yikes I'm so sorry.
NepNep: except how we handle that
Darling: In the words of a previous SA
Darling: "It's almost like saying common sense would be if it was stated in the rules"
NepNep: well ye
Yikes: I think the rules, SPECIFICALLY in TTT have to be AS BLACK AND WHITE as humanly possible, due to the nature of the game being so complicated
NepNep: we changed it to this
NepNep: this is how it is getting handled at the moment
Yikes: To what?
NepNep: if you have complaints about that go to jim jam or a LT and ask them to change the rule xd
Yikes: Well I have no problems as long as theres no actual punishment
NepNep: that joining in on a kos while they are fighting that this is joining gunfight
Yikes: You can be told that was a dick move
Darling: If 2 people are kosed
Darling: you can't tell which one is the traitor.
NepNep: ye, but the HA wanted it to be punishable
Darling: You have no proof I am you have no proof he is
Darling: So why would you shoot?
Yikes: I kill the 1st peson who got KOSed
Yikes: Yes, that's the thing
Yikes: It's JUST like joining a gunfight
Darling: I don't care just understand how the rules are now.
Darling: Close the report
NepNep: If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor
NepNep: like
NepNep: the rule is fine even
Yikes: But then it should be stated that
Yikes: All it takes is an addition of like one sentence
NepNep: it is
Yikes: About a gunfight
Yikes: Not KOSes
NepNep: like
NepNep: when they are fighting they are fighting
NepNep: it doesnt matter if they kos each other then
Yikes: Nep, I understand what you're saying, and I fully aggree with you
NepNep: ye I know
Yikes: But if you want to actually enforce these things
NepNep: they could like mention it as well
Yikes: You need to write it down, otherwise it's meaningless
Yikes: You CANNOT tell someone off for doign somethign that is not against the rules
Yikes: because it's not against the rules
NepNep: well it basically is
Yikes: Let's take this scenario for example
Yikes: Exactly, it BASICALLY is
NepNep: its just shitty described imo
Yikes: So why not just basically add it?
NepNep: I dont know
Yikes: I follow the rules as they are written
Yikes: It'd be dumb to do any otherwise
NepNep: but I cant do that anyways xd
Yikes: Today, especially
Yikes: Take this scenario for example
NepNep: you need to go to a LT member or Jim jam
NepNep: I know what you mean
NepNep: and I agree on it
NepNep: but I wasnt the one who changed it
Yikes: Today, AndysFleshlight I think his name is
Yikes: Kept saying in chat "Irish is an RDMER!!!"
NepNep: and I am currently not in the position to change it as well
Yikes: And I asked him "Why?"
Darling: Fighting and KOS are basically syns
Yikes: He said "I died to his traps, he didn't announce them, means he RDMed
Yikes: Darling, key word is basically
Darling: There is not key word.
Yikes: If it's not written it cannot be my fault
Yikes: Let me finish the story though
Darling: That's like saying because it
Yikes: I then said "Andy, that's not RDM, because a traitor doesn't need to announce them"
Yikes: "But I got warned and slayed by an admin for the same thing"
Darling: Then is he need's to report the admin lol.
Yikes: I told him that
NepNep: lul which dumbass admin did that xd
Yikes: He said he wont, I'm assuming cuz of his application
Yikes: Idk check his repsheet
Yikes: Either way, as this stands, this is entirely not my fault. If you want a rule, to be properly enforced, you need to add it to the rules
Darling: Using that logic means
NepNep: but the thing is
NepNep: if we go by that logic
Darling: If something is not DIRECTLY STATED it's allowed.
Darling: Which is just wrong.
NepNep: that this scenario would be rdm as well
NepNep: cause it is not stated anywhere
Yikes: Nep, what do you mean
NepNep: the example with andy
Yikes: Darling, that's exactly what that means
NepNep: it is stated in the rule
Yikes: That's how the LAW works lol
NepNep: its just worded soo poorly
NepNep: that it is hard to understand it that way
Yikes: It's worded around an actual gunfight
NepNep: which does include this as well
Darling: It's server rules.
Darling: Not a law.
NepNep: I agree that it should be stated more obvious
Darling: Law put's people in prison
Yikes: But
Yikes: For
Yikes: ok it lagged
NepNep: that everyone who read it can understand it without reading it 3 times
Darling: breaking server rules gets you slayed.
NepNep: but it is stated
NepNep: and it is the way how we enforce it
Yikes: For me, Darling shooting Chespin I believe, was not even in question. It was coincidence. I was going purely off of KOSes.
NepNep: so you didnt see them having a gunfight?
Yikes: I did, but as I said, it's meaningless as I was going purely off KOSes.
NepNep: but you still saw that they were fighting
NepNep: so you joined in on the gunfight
NepNep: which is punishable
NepNep: as I said
NepNep: if you have any complains about this
Yikes: Btw don't close the chat immediately
Yikes: I gotta do something
Yikes: before you do
NepNep: go to a LT member or jim jam and ask them if they could change the rule a bit to make it more clear
NepNep: or make a suggestion on the forum
Yikes: I've done that a trillion times when I was admin here
NepNep: oof
Yikes: I've also done THAT a trillion times when I was admin
NepNep: well maybe ask jim jam
Yikes: Didn't do anything. 2 years later it's still the same.
Darling: Understand yikes.
Darling: This is looked at as common sense amoung the staff team.
NepNep: he seems to like you so he might actually bring it up
Yikes: Let me understand this clearer
Yikes: A presumed innocent KOSes a random person, cuz lets say he walked past an unidd body
Yikes: And someone now kills the guy who got KOSed
Yikes: that someone is liable to be punished for joining a gunfight
Yikes: correct?
Darling: No.
NepNep: no?
Darling: Because the other person did not KOS back.
Darling: So it's not a gunfight.
Darling: The other person is not actively denying.
Yikes: Ok, then not the unid'd body
Yikes: Wait no
Yikes: it is a gunfight
Yikes: guy a shoots guy b
Yikes: guy c shoots guy a
Yikes: that's not joining a gunfight?
NepNep: that would be
NepNep: if no one of them died and got ided
NepNep: ye
Darling: Guy C does not have a valid reason to shoot guy A
NepNep: but how does that reffer to your example?
Yikes: ok then what about this
Yikes: guy a shoots guy b
Yikes: guy c this time shoots guy b
Yikes: joined?
Darling: Yes.
Darling: Unless
Darling: Guy a is detective.
Darling: Same thing goes for the latter btw
Darling: In your last example
Yikes: Yea exactly
Darling: if guy B is a detective it's allowed.
Yikes: So this is now, defined as a joined gunfight
Yikes: No detectives
Yikes: And a KOS is (keyword) BASICALLY a gunfight
Darling: If there is no detective again
Darling: Guy C has no reason to shoot at guy B
Yikes: A new example : A very common situation. Saw a dude walk past an unidentified body. I kos him. He gets killed. The person that killed him, following my KOS, joined a gunfight.
Yikes: This, according to you, is true.
NepNep: no because you used the keyword shoot
NepNep: instead of kos
NepNep: if you kos someone
NepNep: and that guy doesnt kos back
Yikes: But a few minutes ago you said a KOS is pretty much like a gunfight
NepNep: and he ends up getting killed its not joining gunfight
Darling: KOS in return
NepNep: but if the guy instead of doing nothing
Darling: is like a gunfight
Darling: ^
NepNep: koses back
NepNep: its joining a gunfight
NepNep: you example didnt even use the word kos to describe anything
Yikes: Well
Yikes: how
Yikes: the HELL
Yikes: am I or anyone else
NepNep: you just asked us if that guy shoot that guy and the third guy joins in, if that is joining gunifght
Yikes: is supposed to know that
Darling: Yes because the guy the joined in had no reason
NepNep: I dont agree with it fully myself
NepNep: but like
Darling: As he has no proof.
NepNep: that is just how we enforce
Yikes: How comes a KOS changes to a gun fight once its said back but not just when its initially said.
Yikes: So in the KOS he'd also have no proof
Darling: Who said you had to follow it?
Yikes: Hes just going off what some person said
Yikes: The gamemode, I don't HAVE to, but I'm trying to have fun and kill traitors as an innocent
Yikes: But you're saying KOSes are now RDMs because the person who follows it RDMed, due to lack of proof by the killer following the KSO
Yikes: KOS*
Darling: No because me and chespin were shooting at eachother when you shot me.
Darling: That's why it's joining.
Yikes: How comes killing someone undera blanket reason is bad
Yikes: but punishing someone for a blanket rule that doesn't even cover what you did is good?
Yikes: But you got KOSed prior to that.
Darling: No I did not.
Darling: I shot at him which is why he kosed me.
Darling: And you did not see that.
Yikes: Once I hear a KOS on someone - I press TAB, Mark the KOSed person as Kill, and once I see him he's getting killed. Unless he getsproven somehow.
Yikes: Yes, I didn't see that. What I did hear is a KOS. Just like any other KOS I hear 5 times in a round, and follow every single one of them and have no problems with it
NepNep: so imma repeat that for the last time now
Yikes: Do you both seriously stand behind and believe in this non existant rule that you're both defending?
NepNep: it is
Darling: Nepgear does not.
NepNep: you can literally
Darling: I don't agree with nepgear.
NepNep: well
NepNep: ye
Darling: I stand by it perfectly fine.
NepNep: but the scenatio that happened
NepNep: is conisdered joining gunfight
NepNep: you can literally ask any staff member about it
Yikes: What if I jump 4 times in a row? What if some other admin says "it's not in the rules but imma punish you for it cuz its comon sense not to do that"
Darling: And on top of that this case you are arguing is not even realivant because what actually got you here was a literal gunfight.
NepNep: that would be just dumb
NepNep: ngl
NepNep: but ye
Darling: I was shooting at chespin and he was shooting back.
Darling: That was a literal gunfight.
NepNep: if you got any complaints about it
NepNep: go to jim jam
NepNep: or an LT member
Yikes: Exactly nep, it'd be dumb, as this is here
NepNep: add me on steam
NepNep: we can talk on steam further xd
Yikes: Remember when you said Andy should report the admin that warned him?
NepNep: yes
Yikes: What that admin did was punish him for a rule that is not there
NepNep: yes
NepNep: but the problem here is
Yikes: It SHOULD be there, I kind of agree with it, however he got punished.
NepNep: what I said multiple times
NepNep: it is there
NepNep: its just worded poorly
Darling: Me and nep are arguing about this.
Darling: Just talk with him all you want.
Darling: I've dried this conversation as there is nothing more to say.
Darling: You get the point and yet are still arguing about it I never made the rule I just enforce it as it is meant to be.
NepNep: I know that the rule got enforced different
NepNep: back then
Yikes: A rule that isn't there
NepNep: I know that this stupid HA did not feel to mention it that we changed it
NepNep: we changed the way we handle that*
Darling: The HA who did change is long gone.
NepNep: there is nothing I can do about it honestly
NepNep: I tried talking to darling to leave it off
NepNep: bc you probably didnt knew it got changed
Yikes: What W
Darling: Boneaggot.
Yikes: What is it exactly that got changed?
NepNep: the way we handle this kind of situations
NepNep: like back then
NepNep: it was allowed to join on this
NepNep: if someone got kosed
NepNep: but then as I said a certain HA came around
NepNep: got killed because of that and got salty and told the staff team to handle it differetnyl
Yikes: So you changed the way you handle a situation instead of making a rule clearer by editing a forum post?
NepNep: yep that is what that HA did
Yikes: But then where's the limit?
NepNep: limit?
Yikes: I'm in trouble for a rule that is not there.
Yikes: Where can this stop?
Darling: I said.
Darling: Like
NepNep: it is
Darling: I don't know
Darling: Maybe
NepNep: but
Yikes: Can you quote it?
NepNep: as i said
Darling: 40 mintues ago
NepNep: it is worded poorly
Darling: That I did not care and you were off the hook.
Yikes: I care though
Yikes: I don't care about me at all
NepNep: If two individuals are fighting and you have no proof which could be the traitor, you must wait before joining in the fight until one player dies and they either
Yikes: but another person can be in my shoes right now
NepNep: there
NepNep: you can read that in there
NepNep: its just worded poorly
NepNep: and he thought it was fine
NepNep: the way it is
Yikes: And it being poorly is somehow the regular players fault?
NepNep: I mean, most of the people know that
NepNep: and if they are getting punished for joining gunfight
Yikes: And not someone who has the power to bring it up in a meeting or ask the person above on the totem pole to edit a forum post
NepNep: they didnt knew about this whole joining gunfight thing
NepNep: well if we take it like that
NepNep: why dont you suggest it or make a post
NepNep: cause that is the same power
NepNep: than I have
NepNep: literally
Yikes: Why don't I get punished for pointing a gun at someone? To someone else, it could be considered T bait.
NepNep: like
NepNep: literally
NepNep: I got enough
NepNep: we explained it often enough
Yikes: Because it should concern me a lot less than it should you
NepNep: I am done
NepNep: if you got complains about this
NepNep: go to a LT or jim jam
NepNep: I told you
NepNep: I cant do something about it
NepNep: end
NepNep: bye
This chat has been closed by NepNep.