TOPIC: [TTT] Yikes! Punishment Appeal

I would lean more on the side of this being RDM, as the rule regarding gunfights does say that to join a fight you need to have an idea as to which one the traitor is, if people are kosing the other I don't think you have enough information to kill. It maybe a good idea to add to the rule something like 'if both involved players call a KOS on the other you must wait until more evidence is provided before killing either player'.

As for my thoughts on the punishment just a verbal would probably be enough since some would say this is a grey area buts that's just my opinion.

Small one, if you objectively looked back at how you reacted to the situation:
-Reported me after you got KOSed
-Kept the report despite you being KOSed
-Grabbed the report yourself whilst 3 other staff members were present
-Denied my other appeal alongside Richard
-Continue to this case.

It's not a huge assumption, but an informed one considering above points.

Read my appeal for crying out loud.

And yes I'm salty that you can't be objective and take any bit of responsibility for this, especially for being with the amount of responsibility and power that you have. The fact that you said warning me isn't important if I'm not going for staff. I'm salty someone like you has the amount of power you currently have and use it to do shit like this.

Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
I'm simply used to saying "We" because most people, like you, don't provide evidence to prove the staff member wrong, and then i have to take their side of the story. Take into consideration that I'm not from a English-speaking country and that i do tend to make mistakes, such as this one.

Also, just because 1 word was mis-placed or similar doesn't mean that it changes everything.

CeeZee wrote:
I go off of what I read. He said "We", how else am I supposed to interpret it?

Gentle reminder to keep your posts on topic and inline with the TOU. I don’t want to have to lock this but I will if I have to.

Interresting, I can't wait to see the outcome

not sure how the fuck this is rdm if they were KOSed. doesn’t matter who killed who, Svanz could have killed either of you, seems like a petty warn to me

Kyber wrote: Last time I checked there was nothing in the rules that said if someone calls a KOS it is an absolute and you have a right to kill that person. There are still situations where you cannot kill a person despite them being KOSed, for example if they are KOSed and you test them so prove them as innocent but then kill them anyway cus they were KOSed. And in this case as a rule states that you cannot join a fight unless you have some proof as to which is the traitor and I'm not sure how you can see 2 people screaming to KOS the other as proof.

Miia wrote: A KOS is a KOS, you can kill someone regardless but killing someone who is proven innocent because they’re kosed is petty but valid. You can however call a KOS on the person who kosed then

Kyber wrote:
Look at it this way. There is a rule that is designed to stop you from joining a gunfight unless you know which one of them is the traitor. If both people are KOSing the other, you still have no idea which one is the traitor. Now to me that sounds a bit like using the fact that they said to KOS the other as a way of loopholing the intent of the rule, to stop you from joining and killing them.

Unless I'm missing something, you need evidence to back up any appeal. If both parties have different stories then the one who made the appeal needs to provide proof that they didn't rule break, or the admins story will be taken as fact no matter what.

This is a tough situation to crack.
As Kyber said, Because KOS was called on both people (CeeZee and someone else) another person is allowed to kill either of the KOS persons.
HOWEVER, as Miia states, It can also be classed as joining gunfights as Yikes had no way of knowing who is the traitor, and it was technically still in the middle of the gunfight.

I hope whoever is handling this takes their time with it, cos this is a tough one.

CeeZee wrote: if you were kosed, no matter what situation you were in, surely you can be killed? It's the whole reason why a traitor would call a KOS mid fight, in an effort to escape the fight and get you killed in some other way (as he was clearly losing the fight to you). I get that this would be very annoying, as you were one bullet away from killing the traitor, but in my opinion Svanz was not breaking the rules by following this KOS.

Eddie. wrote:
I don't know why the argument that a KOS is always OK to follow is being used, there is nothing in the rules saying you can kill a KOSed player regardless of the situation. For example under your logic if a detective gets KOSed as an inno I can kill him. If you accept that an inno cannot kill a KOSed detective then you cannot argue that as a player is KOSes they can be killed no matter what.

The gunfights rule is an actual rule that states this would be RDM.

Miia wrote: kosing a detective would be a completely different story, every single person in the game can see who a detective is and that means it's impossible to even think they're a traitor, the same why you can actually join a gunfight if it's between a detective and another player.

Eddie. wrote:
But your argument was that if you are KOSed then no matter the situation you can be killed. But you just said that there are situations where you cannot be killed. Surely this situation where there is a rule in place saying you can't kill a player is a situation where you cannot follow the KOS.

Miia wrote:
A KOS is valid up unitl the person who was KOSed can be proven to not be a traitor, as killing him after that fact would be RDM.

I.E. :
-KOSed person kills a traitor
-KOSed person tests in the tester
-KOSed person KOSes a traitor who is then killed and identified

All those examples must be made before the KOSed person is killed, or the detective cancels the KOS on the person. Even then, an open KOS is going to be heard a lot more than a closed one. It's just the nature of the game.

Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
If the KOSed person kills a traitor they are not proven , at least not 100%. I have teamed up with t buddies to let them kill me to fake being proven. Same with KOSing a t buddy. Its a strategy that is used a lot more now we have defibs. The only way an innocent can be proven is if you watch them test.

Miia wrote:


That's exactly what I said in another incident revolving Me and Vodka4Gaben I think his name is. No one is ever 100% proven, unless double tested. But that I would still say gets rid of a KOS placed on you and classifies them as "proven" in most cases. It's just that traitor on traitor strat is very gnarly

Thank you for taking the time to make another appeal, I encourage you to do so every time you think something has been mistreated.

I´ve read through your huge and perfectly explained appeal.

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You said that you followed upon a KOS call when you saw CeeZee and another user having a gunfight.

Now as rule 2.1 states
You had a valid reason to kill CeeZee. But you did join a gunfight as you quoted:
You admitted that you did join a gunfight without knowing who was the real traitor. You had no evidence to who was a traitor but the KOSses planted by BOTH players. Because of this, you didn't have enough proof to shoot anyone in this scenario.

See rule 2.5

You should have waited until one of the two died and you had evidence that an innocent was killed.

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Now regarding the "Handling your own report when there are capable staff members online"

I have spoken to various high ranking staff members within the TTT staff team and we have come to the following conclusion about dealing with your own reports:

This is a hot topic and we will be posting this on our lead team agenda in the upcoming meeting.

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