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TOPIC: RDM or not?

RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029263

Miia wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

Orion wrote:

Harry declared an invalid KOS on Prestige, as I've already pointed out and as I pointed out before you shut down the discussion. EDIT: The body was also identified before I shot Harry.

But in that situation a traitor could see that Harry called a false KOS, kill Harry and then be unable to be killed for it. Despite committing a traitorous act he becomes untouchable and protected by the rules.

Yes, that's a risk when innocents RDM other innocents. Harry committed a treasonous offense, so I killed him, as is my right within the confines of the rules. You're saying that all that matters is the outcome, and the context is irrelevant. You're saying that you need to know in advance whether or not someone is an innocent or a traitor, before you can kill them for committing actions that validate KOS's in the first place.

The logic you used to kill Harry would be the same logic i would apply to kill you for killing him. You cannot possible know whether the innocent that Harry KOSed had committed a traitorous act, if he had it would have given Harry a valid reason to KOS them. So despite Harry having a perfectly valid reason to KOS that innocent you still killed him. You did basically the same thing you are arguing should be RDM.

Implicitly, however, Harry said it was OK. I asked in the voice chat if I could kill Harry for false KOS a couple times, and Harry, upon realizing Prestige was an innocent, said that yes, I could shoot him.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029264

Henny wrote:

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Yes, killing an innocent is kosable regardless of the circumstances (unless you are a detective).

I take it that if you do happen to be a detective, you're in the clear?

I'll keep this thread in mind the next time I'm on your TTT server.

If someone calls a false kos on an innocent and a detective kills them, why would an innocent suddenly kill him? He has 0 chance of being the traitor, so it wouldn't make logical sense and would just be RDM. I am not saying the detective can just go around and RDM as he wishes, rather, he is allowed to follow the KOSes he deems correct.

It was a rhetorical question. That should be self-evident because, as you said, detectives cannot be traitors.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029265

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

Orion wrote:

Harry declared an invalid KOS on Prestige, as I've already pointed out and as I pointed out before you shut down the discussion. EDIT: The body was also identified before I shot Harry.

But in that situation a traitor could see that Harry called a false KOS, kill Harry and then be unable to be killed for it. Despite committing a traitorous act he becomes untouchable and protected by the rules.

Yes, that's a risk when innocents RDM other innocents. Harry committed a treasonous offense, so I killed him, as is my right within the confines of the rules. You're saying that all that matters is the outcome, and the context is irrelevant. You're saying that you need to know in advance whether or not someone is an innocent or a traitor, before you can kill them for committing actions that validate KOS's in the first place.

The logic you used to kill Harry would be the same logic i would apply to kill you for killing him. You cannot possible know whether the innocent that Harry KOSed had committed a traitorous act, if he had it would have given Harry a valid reason to KOS them. So despite Harry having a perfectly valid reason to KOS that innocent you still killed him. You did basically the same thing you are arguing should be RDM.

Implicitly, however, Harry said it was OK. I asked in the voice chat if I could kill Harry for false KOS a couple times, and Harry, upon realizing Prestige was an innocent, said that yes, I could shoot him.

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029266

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Yes, killing an innocent is kosable regardless of the circumstances (unless you are a detective).

I take it that if you do happen to be a detective, you're in the clear?

I'll keep this thread in mind the next time I'm on your TTT server.

Come on, use your head. Detectives can't be KOS'd. When was the last time you saw a Detective doubling as a Traitor?

It was a rhetorical question. Come on, use your head.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029267

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Yes, killing an innocent is kosable regardless of the circumstances (unless you are a detective).

I take it that if you do happen to be a detective, you're in the clear?

I'll keep this thread in mind the next time I'm on your TTT server.

If someone calls a false kos on an innocent and a detective kills them, why would an innocent suddenly kill him? He has 0 chance of being the traitor, so it wouldn't make logical sense and would just be RDM. I am not saying the detective can just go around and RDM as he wishes, rather, he is allowed to follow the KOSes he deems correct.

It was a rhetorical question. That should be self-evident because, as you said, detectives cannot be traitors.

Maybe I misinterpreted your tone. I thought you were conveying that as detective you can do as you wish without consequence.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029268

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029269

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

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See I haven't even ripped anything of yours, nor have I even tried, but from what I've seen on your end, you have a really stuck up and snarky attitude. Wouldn't be surprised if almost everybody found it to be annoying.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029270

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

No, I just got KOSd for killing someone with a demonstrably valid KOS on him. Which, again, was implied would not happen when Harry said to go ahead and shoot him.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029271

Orion wrote:

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

No, I just got KOSd for killing someone with a demonstrably valid KOS on him. Which, again, was implied would not happen when Harry said to go ahead and shoot him.

Implied in what way? Unless he specifically stated that "You will not be kosed for this" then you misinterpreted what he meant. By saying that you will not be punished, he was informing you that you would not be getting an autoslay/warn from a staff member. He can't control what other users do.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029273

Henny wrote:

Orion wrote:

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

No, I just got KOSd for killing someone with a demonstrably valid KOS on him. Which, again, was implied would not happen when Harry said to go ahead and shoot him.

Implied in what way? Unless he specifically stated that "You will not be kosed for this" then you misinterpreted what he meant. By saying that you will not be punished, he was informing you that you would not be getting an autoslay/warn from a staff member. He can't control what other users do.

He didn't say I wouldn't be KOSd, nor did he say I wouldn't be punished. However, when I ask "Can I do X", and an admin says "Yes", the implication is that there are no repercussions for doing X.

Let's imagine I asked you if I could report an admin for abuse of power and you said "Yes" (which I assume would be the case). After my report, I find that the admin has permanently banned me. Would you then say that you didn't specifically say that the admin wouldn't ban me for it? Or do you agree that the implication would be that filing a (true) report would have no repercussions?

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029274

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Orion wrote:

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

No, I just got KOSd for killing someone with a demonstrably valid KOS on him. Which, again, was implied would not happen when Harry said to go ahead and shoot him.

Implied in what way? Unless he specifically stated that "You will not be kosed for this" then you misinterpreted what he meant. By saying that you will not be punished, he was informing you that you would not be getting an autoslay/warn from a staff member. He can't control what other users do.

He didn't say I wouldn't be KOSd, nor did he say I wouldn't be punished. However, when I ask "Can I do X", and an admin says "Yes", the implication is that there are no repercussions for doing X.

Let's imagine I asked you if I could report an admin for abuse of power and you said "Yes" (which I assume would be the case). After my report, I find that the admin has permanently banned me. Would you then say that you didn't specifically say that the admin wouldn't ban me for it? Or do you agree that the implication would be that filing a (true) report would have no repercussions?

So clearly you think you know a lot about TTT right? If you see someone kill an inno, you'd kill them yeah? So where is the confusion here? I again am going to state 2 VERY simple rules.
Falsely KOSing an innocent is KOSable.
Killing an innocent is KOSable.
Please take these into consideration before typing a response to this. Assuming you do what I am telling you, we wont hear from you on this thread again. If you have a reply, you messed up your thought process and should try to go back and walk yourself through it again.

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See I haven't even ripped anything of yours, nor have I even tried, but from what I've seen on your end, you have a really stuck up and snarky attitude. Wouldn't be surprised if almost everybody found it to be annoying.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029277

Orion wrote:

Henny wrote:

Orion wrote:

dingofetch wrote:

Orion wrote:

Miia wrote:

So what if Harry said it was OK. If Harry had a valid reason to KOS Prestige for injuring him and then Prestige turns out to be innocent then you still killed Harry when he KOSed someone for a perfectly valid reason. Oh this whole situation seems to be on the staff members fault for attempting to RDM Harry in the first place.

Because, implicitly, he's saying it's not something I'll be punished or KOSd for. He is an admin, after all, and when an admin says it's OK to do something, that's the implication; that you're well within the confines of the rules and won't be punished in any way.

You were clearly well within the confines of the rules, did someone punish you for it?

No, I just got KOSd for killing someone with a demonstrably valid KOS on him. Which, again, was implied would not happen when Harry said to go ahead and shoot him.

Implied in what way? Unless he specifically stated that "You will not be kosed for this" then you misinterpreted what he meant. By saying that you will not be punished, he was informing you that you would not be getting an autoslay/warn from a staff member. He can't control what other users do.

He didn't say I wouldn't be KOSd, nor did he say I wouldn't be punished. However, when I ask "Can I do X", and an admin says "Yes", the implication is that there are no repercussions for doing X.

Let's imagine I asked you if I could report an admin for abuse of power and you said "Yes" (which I assume would be the case). After my report, I find that the admin has permanently banned me. Would you then say that you didn't specifically say that the admin wouldn't ban me for it? Or do you agree that the implication would be that filing a (true) report would have no repercussions?

I believe he said "Yes" as in referring to the fact that he or other staff wouldn't punish you. You assumed that it meant there would be no repercussions whatsoever, however that is incorrect. Your assumption in this case was wrong, which isn't a big deal. At least now you understand that killing an innocent warrants a KOS for reasons already listed by myself and other staff members in this thread.
For your example, that is quite different from this case. If you didnt deserve a permaban, obviously I would deal with that. By telling you "you can report an abusive admin" I am essentially implying that their is no consequence from doing so, however, that is quite different from what actually happened. With the report, no external influences are involved from other parties aside from the ones directly involved. Relating to what actually happened, Harry implied that you wouldnt be punished, but you thought that "punished" meant in any way possible. It was obviously meant as in punished by autoslay/warn. Clearly just a misinterpretation that could have been avoided if you knew that killing an innocent is KOSable no matter what.

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Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Henny.

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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029283

Basically, the moment you kill an innocent, no matter your reasoning, you can also be killed. If you are also innocent, then the person that killed you can also be killed. Obviously this can cause a nasty chain reaction of innocents killing innocents but yeah, there was no RDM involved in this.	eddie. Offline Adept Boarder fuck Posts: 6128 Thanks received: 1742 Karma: 48
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RDM or not? 5 years 6 months ago #1029432

Miia explained this pretty good. It's KOSable to kill an innocent no matter what to prevent some "errors" in the gamemode. People can ask you for the reason and trust you but sometimes they don't trust you. Though I don't know if Dingo did open a chat and explain to you or not. He should've opened a chat and explained the rules to you so that you understood the situation.

When it comes to you asking if you could kill him or not and he answered yes. He meant that according to the rules you could.

This can be locked as the question is answered (what I see anyway)

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Fuck off Luki, why do you have to do this ear rape type beat to my homie EMP.. he JOINED YOUR CHANNEL just for you, and you welcome him like that ? come on bro, have some respect to the big ballers man, and when i say big ballers, i don't mean it in weight. He actually lost 250 pounds,