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@FluffyOP - Apology

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Raeker wrote:

Pegasus wrote:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

Ashur wrote:

Raeker wrote:

spodermon wrote:

ChummyXRay wrote:

Pegasus wrote:

Ugh, next time better be carefull who you kick and maybe talk to him. Lucky you that this is going to be refunded!

According to his post he did attempt to discuss this with Fluffy, but he decided to act like a child and lash out. Ashur isn't "lucky" that it'll be refunded. While a kick might be seen as too much, he was well within his right to correct what he saw was a rulebreak. The lucky one is Fluffy, because even though he broke rules and was apparently being an ass, he's still getting an apology and offers to repay him in some format. Now, this is all hearsay without proof showing how it went down, but if what Ashur said is true, there is no need for this post.

The kick command is only used under extreme circumstances with extreme circumstances i mean with if an user is propspamming and refusing to remove his props or his mass rdming even after a 10 minutes jail/freeze. and that wasn't the case in this situation. This could be easily resolved with a mute, warn and if needed freeze for 5 minutes. The alts rapsheet was clear so there's another reason why a kick was also obviously excessive. Even if he knew him or not the kick was absolutely unneeded and it ruined his rp.

Sorry, Spoder, but are you daft in the head? "It ruined his RP"? This is a user that has been breaking rules. If you seriously think we should be concerned with the user's RP when punishing them then I don't even understand why punishments exist in the first place.

spodermon wrote:

I'm not gonna dive bomb into this thread anylonger but, you knew damn well that you should not have kicked him,btw you might wanna read the other posts aswell.

And I know for sure that he wasn't mass nlring you could've easily asked for a jail if you feel 'uncomfortable ' with the freeze command and you can warn aswell. Nevertheless his rapsheet was also completely clean. Again this could've easily been resolved with a (talk) mute, warn and if deemed necessary a 10 min freeze

Whatever you might believe, a freeze is not a proper punishment and by no means a replacement for the kick command. I cannot understand why you're trying to limit the staff member's powers when they already have very few commands in the first place.

spodermon wrote:

Pegasus wrote:

Staff Ethos say’s it all...

Disrespect
When dealing with disrespectful users we advise using powers other than the ban or kick commands, rather try to use powers such as muting and warning.

Exactly, that's why he should've used the freeze command/warn/mute. And hence the kick command was unnecessary excessive force
Also @chummy
zarpgaming.com/index.php/forum/server-is...to-the-mods?start=15

Note that this is advice. It is expected of staff to do everything within their power not to use the kick command, but that doesn't mean that it's immediately abuse when they actually do. If the staff member believes a kick was warranted then apparently the situation wwas so out of contrl that there wasn't any other actual option.

And even if a kick was not warranted, that still does not mean the user should be refunded. If we're seriously going to refund users when they're breaking rules then I seriously cannot understand what the point is in being a staff member in the first place. It's completely undermining everything that a staff member is and does.

Staffs word is final, he got kicked cause he refused to listen, and when i said ill forcefully get him out the district he made an attempt to RDM me, the only reason this got out of hand was because he lost printers, and EiPUS don't disrespect me in admin chat for what i did, the staff member chooses the punishment that he feels is correct, Fluffy as ex admin should know that he has to listen, thanks Raeker for your words.

A Simple way to deal with the situation:
1) Freeze said user.
2) Teleport him out of the district and onto a roof.
3) Deal with the situation accordingly, mute for the disrespect and warn for the RDM.
4) Set the user down and proceed with the procedure again should he do anything the like again. A kick with 0 recents is just not appropriate at all.

the staff member chooses the punishment that he feels is correct

You can be critized for choosing the wrong punishment, which in this case it clearly was, you could have dealt with it in a way which would protect the user according to ethos and hinder him from disrespecting you aswell. The kick was a punishment which hurt him the most because you destroyed the printers. But punishment isn't supposed to be interactive with RP, unless the printers where at an illegal spot(as an example). You dealt with the situation in the wrong way and you should accept it.

I agree that the staff member shouldn't always be the one to decide what the 'right' punishment is, namely with bans which are usually very excessive because the staff member believes it to be "right". But I do not believe that a kick is an unfair punishment if the staff member believes the user is behaving improperly, so saying that this situation was dealt with wrongly is more a matter of opinion than a matter of it actually being wrong.

Punishments never interact with RP under any circumstances. Punishments are always purposely given outside of RP nor do, and should, they have any affect on them. What you're saying is "He shouldn't have been kicked because it ruined his RP", but that makes no sense, because kicking a user should always be because of the user's actions. A refund would be needed if the staff member kicked the user for no reason. The user was breaking rules so he got kicked, and regardless of whether or not you think it was harsh it was by no means abuse nor should it mean that Ashur would have to publically shame himself like this.

Absolutely agree with that, I was told that Ashur knew the printers where down and as a result chose to kick the user, which would not be appropriate. In this case the kick was inappropriate but not abusive.

BBCode

[quote="Raeker" post=819788][quote="Pegasus" post=819784][spoiler][quote="Ashur" post=819778][quote="Raeker" post=819773][quote="spodermon" post=819711][quote="ChummyXRay" post=819589][quote="Pegasus" post=819577]Ugh, next time better be carefull who you kick and maybe talk to him. Lucky you that this is going to be refunded![/quote]

According to his post he did attempt to discuss this with Fluffy, but he decided to act like a child and lash out. Ashur isn't "lucky" that it'll be refunded. While a kick might be seen as too much, he was well within his right to correct what he saw was a rulebreak. The lucky one is Fluffy, because even though he broke rules and was apparently being an ass, he's still getting an apology and offers to repay him in some format. Now, this is all hearsay without proof showing how it went down, but if what Ashur said is true, there is no need for this post.[/quote]

The kick command is only used under extreme circumstances with extreme circumstances i mean with if an user is propspamming and refusing to remove his props or his mass rdming even after a 10 minutes jail/freeze.  and that wasn't the case in this situation. This could be easily resolved with a mute, warn and if needed  freeze for 5 minutes.  The alts rapsheet was clear so there's another reason why a kick was also obviously excessive.  [b]Even if he knew him or not the kick was absolutely unneeded and it ruined his rp.[/b][/quote]
Sorry, Spoder, but are you daft in the head? "It ruined his RP"? This is a [b]user[/b] that has been [b]breaking rules[/b]. If you seriously think we should be concerned with the user's RP when punishing them then I don't even understand why punishments exist in the first place.

[quote="spodermon" post=819740]I'm not gonna dive bomb into this thread anylonger but,  you knew damn well that you should not have kicked him,btw  you might wanna read the other posts aswell.

And I know for sure that he wasn't mass nlring you could've easily asked for a jail if you feel 'uncomfortable ' with the freeze command and you can warn aswell.  Nevertheless his rapsheet was also completely clean.  Again this could've easily been resolved with a (talk)  mute, warn and if deemed necessary a 10 min freeze[/quote]
Whatever you might believe, a freeze is not a proper punishment and by no means a replacement for the kick command. I cannot understand why you're trying to limit the staff member's powers when they already have very few commands in the first place.

[quote="spodermon" post=819734][quote="Pegasus" post=819720][li][/li]Staff Ethos say’s it all...
[quote]
Disrespect
When dealing with disrespectful users we advise using powers other than the ban or kick commands, rather try to use powers such as muting and warning.
[/quote][/quote]

Exactly,  that's why he should've used the freeze command/warn/mute. And hence the kick command was unnecessary excessive force
Also @chummy
http://zarpgaming.com/index.php/forum/server-issues/102739-add-the-jail-command-to-the-mods?start=15[/quote]
Note that this is advice. It is expected of staff to do everything within their power not to use the kick command, but that doesn't mean that it's immediately abuse when they actually do. If the staff member believes a kick was warranted then apparently the situation wwas so out of contrl that there wasn't any other actual option.

And even if a kick was not warranted, that still does not mean the user should be refunded. If we're seriously going to refund users when they're breaking rules then I seriously cannot understand what the point is in being a staff member in the first place. It's completely undermining everything that a staff member is and does.[/quote]
Staffs word is final, he got kicked cause he refused to listen, and when i said ill forcefully get him out the district he made an attempt to RDM me, the only reason this got out of hand was because he lost printers, and EiPUS don't disrespect me in admin chat for what i did, the staff member chooses the punishment that he feels is correct, Fluffy as ex admin should know that he has to listen, thanks Raeker for your words.[/quote][/spoiler]
A Simple way to deal with the situation:
1) Freeze said user.
2) Teleport him out of the district and onto a roof.
3) Deal with the situation accordingly, mute for the disrespect and warn for the RDM.
4) Set the user down and proceed with the procedure again should he do anything the like again. A kick with 0 recents is just not appropriate at all.

[quote] the staff member chooses the punishment that he feels is correct[/quote]
You can be critized for choosing the wrong punishment, which in this case it clearly was, you could have dealt with it in a way which would protect the user according to ethos and hinder him from disrespecting you aswell. The kick was a punishment which hurt him the most because you destroyed the printers. But punishment isn't supposed to be interactive with RP, unless the printers where at an illegal spot(as an example). You dealt with the situation in the wrong way and you should accept it.[/quote]
I agree that the staff member shouldn't always be the one to decide what the 'right' punishment is, namely with bans which are usually very excessive because the staff member believes it to be "right". But I do not believe that a kick is an unfair punishment if the staff member believes the user is behaving improperly, so saying that this situation was dealt with wrongly is more a matter of opinion than a matter of it actually being wrong.

Punishments [b]never[/b] interact with RP under any circumstances. Punishments are always purposely given outside of RP nor do, and should, they have any affect on them. What you're saying is "He shouldn't have been kicked because it ruined his RP", but that makes no sense, because kicking a user should always be because of the user's actions. A refund would be needed if the staff member kicked the user for no reason. The user was breaking rules so he got kicked, and regardless of whether or not you think it was harsh it was by no means abuse nor should it mean that Ashur would have to publically shame himself like this.[/quote]
Absolutely agree with that, I was told that Ashur knew the printers where down and as a result chose to kick the user, which would not be appropriate. In this case the kick was inappropriate but not abusive.

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@FluffyOP - Apology

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