TOPIC: TTT Suggestion

Server Name: TTT

Suggestion Title: Rule change

Old
2.4a Constant T-baiting as Innocent/Detective
T-baiting, which is the act of committing traitorous acts as an Innocent / Detective which make it seem as though you are a traitor (see "Valid KOS Reasons" for some examples) is a KOSable offence
The act of continuous T-baiting over multiple rounds is punishable, at the discretion of the staff member.

New
2.4a T-baiting as Innocent/Detective
T-baiting, which is the act of committing traitorous acts as an Innocent / Detective which make it seem as though you are a traitor (see "Valid KOS Reasons" for some examples) is a punishable offence.

Old
2.6 Valid KOS Reasons
Shooting nearby players to “scare” them

New
2.6 Valid KOS Reasons
Shooting towards players to "scare" them

How would it benefit the server:
Prevent people from T-baiting and ruining the round for other players. For example a player spots someone throwing diamond blocks into the lava in the nether so they kill them and they are innocent, that player now has the karma loss from killing an innocent and is likely to be killed if a detective finds the body. It would also remove the subjectivity of constant from the rule making it more clear what is and what is not allowed.

Potential Issues/Exploits:
People who like T-baiting can no longer do it. It could also create situations where staff could punish for very minor things but i would like to think they have the common sense to know when a verbal is all thats needed.

Additional notes:

Im going to start by saying im unsure as to why this was changed, i find it very hard to justify how many of the things that would be classed as T-baiting should be allowed. T-baiting goes against the main objective of the game as innocents are now allowed to work against their own team by helping the traitors with things like hiding diamond/gold blocks. As a result of this as mentioned above it also leads to situations it ruins the round for other players as well, its in no way a victimless crime. If you get killed for T-baiting and an innocent kills you they not only lose karma but also are very likely to get killed because of it, you can totally ruin someones round in the same way as just straight up shooting them but you dont get punished for it and in my opinion that makes no sense.

The other big problem is the subjectivity of the rule, constant T-baiting is not clearly defined and currently you could just remove the rule completely and it would have no effect. No one knows how much T-baiting is required for it to be constant and as a result the rule is not enforced. Even if it was more clear T-baiting is a hard thing to monitor, do you expect staff to sit in spec and watch the T room counting how many times someone throws a diamond block in as an innocent in x amount of rounds? The constant part should be removed or just remove the rule completely, i dont see why we dont just give someone a verbal the first time they t bait then punish the second time.

I was told there were some issues before regarding where players were shooting being classed as T-baiting so i altered the KOS reasons to specify that for it to be T-baiting you must be actually shooting towards people not just randomly shooting into the sky next to someone. While it will be hard to prove where people are shooting its always been hard to prove some things and im sure if staff open a chat there will be no issues as they have the common sense to know if they cant find proof they should assume innocence.

TheRealNepgear wrote:
If a staff member cannot decide when and when not to punish someone or when a verbal is the best situation then thats a staff member issue not a rule issues. You cannot have a rule where its against the rules but you are allowed to do it a little bit, it either is or is not against the rules. I dont think one innocent should be able to decide no one else is allowed to win this way, if a traitor wants to be smart and hide a diamond thats fine, you should not be working against your team because you dont like it, other innocents do and if they actually enjoy finding the diamonds then you have pissed them off as well. If someone else joins in with two people shooting each other is that not joining a fight? In any case its hardly important because honestly how many times have you seen someone get reported for T-baiting, i could count the number on one hand. "and if he is fine why should we punish" ive already said staff should have the required level of common sense to decide when a punishment is needed. I am clarifying how often people are allowed to break a rule, and that is 0.

Well, you see, the "constant T-baiting" part is mostly for common sense, the rule was implemented to stop potential "trollers" that for example, throw diamond blocks away every round. I disagree with this part being useless, as it is pretty easy to spot someone constantly T-baiting and take action, whether it is a verbal or not.
I also don't understand why you wish to change the word "nearby" to "towards". Shooting at the ground when close to someone isn't really shooting towards them, but it definitely can be considered T-baiting and get you killed for it.
I get the intentions you have, but not everything can be written and explained in the rules. I do think that this rule needs a little more polish, but in my opinion, your version of it isn't too good.

Davidov007 wrote:
You can stop the trollers by just having the rule as T-baiting is not allowed. It is hard to spot people throwing blocks away every single round so its constant, what do you want me to do follow them everywhere and make sure they dont do it too often? as for nearby to towards it was an attempt to at least make it so you could fire a gun and not get instantly gundowned by some troll saying he was shooting and i got scared.

Miia wrote: I see, but the rule is very situational, for example the scenario you presented of "killing an innocent because of T-baiting not only lowers your karma, but also could result in your death" is the most extreme it can get. What I'm saying is, we shouldn't be warning people for shooting once in the sky for a friendly and joking purpose.

Nina wrote:
My main issue is the subjectivity of the rule and the fact that while t baiting might not seem like that much of a victimless crime it can be. Lets say someone starts shooting at someone towards them but missing, the guy then shoots back thinking hes under attack and kills the guy, that guy then has lower karma and the likelyhood of being killed for it, the exact same outcome as if the guy had shot and hit him except this time because he missed so it was only t baiting the guy doesnt get punished and its ok. With t baiting you get to fuck up people rounds and get away with it.

Davidov007 wrote: I literally just put in the suggestion change it to specify shooting towards a player so that cant happen.

Miia wrote: And how are you gonna find out whether a shot was fired towards someone or not? It's way too general of a word.

Davidov007 wrote: How are you gonna find out if someone walked past a body or not? How you gonna find out if someone was KOSed in voice chat? We already have to deal with situations where we dont know where a player was shooting anyway.

Miia wrote: AAAAAAAA I knew you'd respond with that.