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TOPIC: [Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team!

[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113479

Server Name:
N/A; Community Suggestion

Suggestion Title:
Staff Manager Team (Now, hold your comments in for a minute; read the thread!)

How would it benefit the server:
What is the Staff Manager Team (SMT)?

Firstly, I must say this idea was prompted when reading a fair number of staff rants (both through DMs and on the forums), and I've found that what I'm about to discuss seems to be a recurring topic for community members on all servers. As such, I believe a team like this could only benefit the community.

All right, so we have all heard mentions of staff abuse and corruption throughout our time playing on ZARP, and I think most of us can agree it's something that's been brought up by members of the community quite frequently. While these reports and complaints don't all have roots in truth - I feel like it's necessary for these things to be investigated more thoroughly.

Regardless of how valid the claims of corruption are at the moment, I think it's only appropriate that instead of dismissing these claims, we dedicate an individual organ to handle these reports and return a verdict and summary of the situation and investigation. These summaries, of course, should be logged somewhere for the public to see, so they're aware of what's happening and can form their own opinion and dispute the verdicts if they deem it necessary. (Upon which it should be brought up again - whether that is briefly or a complete redo of the investigation[1])

As for the qualities the Staff Manager Team should possess, here's what I think; a member of the SMT should be impartial at all times - this means no bias despite the relationship between one staff member and another.[2] Other qualities include being able to collect information and evidence to back up the claims of their investigations. The Staff Managers should also be able to extrapolate from the information they have collected and come to a reasonable and viable verdict.

The Staff Manager Team should take all reports seriously, and order their reports by priority.[3] Upon having collected reports, an investigation of the highest priority case should begin. Information on how these investigations are perpetrated can be read under "How would the SMT operate?"

Investigations and reports should be discussed in a weekly meeting that is separated from both the community- and server meetings. Anyone who is brought up in the meeting is subject to being moved in and interviewed. Additionally, only Community Team Members and Staff Managers have permissions to join this meeting unless Staff Manager- or Community Members themselves are being discussed[*]
How would the SMT operate?

This section is going to detail the operations & details of how the Staff Manager Team will operate. This will also be summarised in a bullet-point "TL;DR".

Priority

Upon receiving a report, Staff Managers must list the report accompanied by any evidence/information of the report. Then the report will be assigned a priority. The priority determines the order in which reports should be handled, and the number of Staff Manager(s) that are required to handle it. Priorities range from one to four (1-4) where a higher number equals a higher priority. Additional information such as required investigators is to some degree tied to the priority, but the number of investigators may vary even if multiple cases have the same level of priority.

Execution and Process of Investigation[**]

The investigation of staff members should be done carefully. Staff members that hold a higher position within the lead- or community team will naturally be more difficult to investigate so your first priority should always be to stay low. You should refrain from confronting the staff member, and instead, collect information on how they behave both on the forums and in-game.


Phase 1a
Essentially, you want to connect the dots between situations, their verdicts, and the users involved. If you notice a recurring theme, such as a member being favoured over another- or a member perpetually being handled differently just in general, it's worth taking into account. Note down the following; ALL users involved - meaning the staff member, the person being favoured, and all other parties, such as the accused/etc - and also note down the verdicts/reasoning behind the situations, a summary of the situation(s) themselves, and lastly the frequency of the suspected biased or corrupted behaviour. This is simply to begin a case and to look for any potential corruption or bias.[4]


Phase 1b [ Click to expand ]



Phase 2
This is where you start interviewing the parties involved and start digging for details of the entire situation. Write down any significant information throughout your conversation and also log the entire conversation in the scenario where you would want to look back at some parts of the conversations. Based on your conversation with all the parties, try to map out a timeline of what happened, why things happened, and if the actions perpetrated were warranted or necessary.

If there are inconsistencies in the timeline, you need to look into why that is, and what could be the source of them. For instance, if multiple inconsistencies favour the accused staff member, you have a reason to believe they're lying or have tampered with the timeline and you should try your best to acquire the correct information and create a legitimate and exact timeline. If you're unable to improve the timeline further, you may rule out any punishments, but depending on the situation you might want to keep tabs on the staff member in question.

Logging
Virtually all perpetrated actions of a Staff Manager should be logged. This means that even if you pick up a case, go through Phase 1a and determine there's insufficient information to initiate Phase 2/start a full-scale investigation, that you should still log it with the reason you believe there is insufficient information, as well as all the information and details you gathered. That way, if at least one other Staff Manager disagrees with your verdict and dismissal of a situation, it can still be brought up and discussed further.

Additionally, all - and I can't stress this enough - absolutely ALL information; chat-logs, verbal interviews, general details, and summaries should be saved and logged. This ensures that all Staff Managers can object to any situation, as well as being able to form their own opinion on the case, and that requires knowledge of absolutely everything there is to say about a situation.

Systems
W.I.P: More information on this at a later date. This will discuss how/where things would be logged and such stuff that you may be wondering. I'll revise this thread tomorrow and add this section then. I'm tired.



[1] Based on factors such as thread elaboration (Is the thread expansive?), points brought up (Did the SMT miss something; do the disputing individuals bring up any significant points that could potentially have an impact on the outcome?) and other factors that would determine the priority and importance of bringing the concluded investigation up for a potential reinvestigation.

[2] While this might seem like an obvious criterion, it's important to stress that some people - even lead team members at times - fail to stay objective throughout situations investigating their close friends. Therefore, I'd look for people that have proven to show immense impartiality and that display characteristic that would imply they're able to view a situation objectively regardless of the topic or individual(s) being discussed. I'll be honest and say that I haven't stumbled upon a lot of these people and I have no problem in admitting that I believe most of my friends within the lead teams on ZARP don't possess the ability to stay impartial.

[3] See "Priority" under "How would the SMT operate?"

[4] Phase 1a should be done passively if there's any reason to believe a staff member is corrupt, and in some cases, if a report fails to provide enough evidence to support its claims.

[*] This is subject to change! I haven't yet concluded the "how", "where", and "whens" of the SMT meetings.

[**] Subject to change. The Community Team may determine the full process. However, I have thought of how some parts of the process should be executed.
Potential Issues/Exploits:

W.I.P: I'll add these later!

Additional notes:

To clarify, the Staff Manager Team will only focus on Lead Team Members or higher! This means that all demotions and reports involving moderators- or administrators are still left for the Lead Team to handle. The "situations" discussed in this thread include report abuses of staff members or biased behaviour and actions towards staff members in-game.
Please, if you have any questions or feel like you need me to elaborate, contact me PRIVATELY so I can help you understand exactly how this is all built in my head. Leaving non-constructive comments that could've easily be answered faster and better privately is simply unnecessary. Thanks. Also, this thread is obviously Work In Progress at the moment; I've decided to post it so I can revise it tomorrow since I've been working on this for a while already and I can already tell it's going to be difficult to understand if I just finished it today. btw ur mom gay
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113481

ok, imma just reply and say this:

yes thread is work in progress so just like don't read it right now until I revise tomorrow thank. A lot of this isn't final and I probably fail to explain things the way I want to so please take note of the last paragraph on the thread.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113483

can we change the name already it is scarred
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113484

DEADMONSTOR wrote:
can we change the name already it is scarred

I really wanted to use the name for the memes of it lol
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113485

This is a really well thought out and explained suggestion; even if it's still a WIP.

I have a few questions I'll send you over Discord rather than posting them here, maybe it would be worthwhile adding them to the thread when you get a chance.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113487

.uzi wrote:
This is a really well thought out and explained suggestion; even if it's still a WIP.

I have a few questions I'll send you over Discord rather than posting them here, maybe it would be worthwhile adding them to the thread when you get a chance.

Absolutely, I'm going to sleep soon but feel free to message me on Steam or Discord right now and I'll respond promptly!
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113488

Rick Johnson wrote:
Additional notes:

To clarify, the Staff Manager Team will only focus on Lead Team Members or higher! This means that all demotions and reports involving moderators- or administrators are still left for the Lead Team to handle.
btw ur mom gay
I feel like these reports should also be taken into consideration and logged, both the staff member in question and the lead team member that handles it, for future possible reports on both parties and their possible "corruption" and to save the team having to go back over several weeks of pages to find specific cases handled by said lead team member.

no ur mom gayer
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113495

In all honesty, this seems like a "who watches the Watchmen?" kind of thing.

It's a well written and thought out suggestion, however the staff team as it is currently already handles situations such as this. Regardless of who is dealing with things, there will ALWAYS be reports and complaints of bias or corruption, that's just how things work. Having a team like this would just make people put these accusations towards the Lead Team and also this separate team.

The way that the staff team works currently already considers these areas, hence there is the selection of Lead Team members and also Server Owners and the Community Team (and me I guess, I don't really fall under either of those categories, I guess I'm a glorified Server Owner though) to deal with things properly and appropriately. Having more people just raises another question of who keeps this team in check?

There's no way to ensure that everyone has someone binding them to do their job properly, hence why people are selected for ranks based on trust and proving themselves for the position, and also why Head Admins are able to raise demotions of other Head Admins, allowing them to watch over one another.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113497

Sally wrote:
Rick Johnson wrote:
Additional notes:

To clarify, the Staff Manager Team will only focus on Lead Team Members or higher! This means that all demotions and reports involving moderators- or administrators are still left for the Lead Team to handle.
btw ur mom gay
I feel like these reports should also be taken into consideration and logged, both the staff member in question and the lead team member that handles it, for future possible reports on both parties and their possible "corruption" and to save the team having to go back over several weeks of pages to find specific cases handled by said lead team member.

no ur mom gayer

Those types of reports are considered and will be logged. This is only applicable if there's a reason to believe a staff member is being biased, though, I'd like if you could elaborate on this so I can understand what you mean because right now I'm not certain you're talking about keeping all staff's reports logged regardless of whether or not they are suspected in the first place.

Feel free to contact me on Discord so we can have a full discussion to clarify what is/isn't being logged.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113504

TheXnator wrote:
In all honesty, this seems like a "who watches the Watchmen?" kind of thing.

It's a well written and thought out suggestion, however the staff team as it is currently already handles situations such as this. Regardless of who is dealing with things, there will ALWAYS be reports and complaints of bias or corruption, that's just how things work. Having a team like this would just make people put these accusations towards the Lead Team and also this separate team.

The way that the staff team works currently already considers these areas, hence there is the selection of Lead Team members and also Server Owners and the Community Team (and me I guess, I don't really fall under either of those categories, I guess I'm a glorified Server Owner though) to deal with things properly and appropriately. Having more people just raises another question of who keeps this team in check?

There's no way to ensure that everyone has someone binding them to do their job properly, hence why people are selected for ranks based on trust and proving themselves for the position, and also why Head Admins are able to raise demotions of other Head Admins, allowing them to watch over one another.

I'll contact you on Steam to see if you can get a better grasp of the idea and how it's all going to hang together.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113507

And can we then have a "staff manager team manager team"? And who will watch that the "staff manager team manager team" will be doing their things correctly as well?

(Sadly) I need to agree with the 'glorified server owner' on this one, instead of people shouting "TTT LT is corrupt" they'll most likely just shift their indexfinger towards the people in the staff manager team (and to the people in the staff manager manager team (yes i do believe that a bad joke gets better the more often you tell it)).

Don't get me wrong I do believe that this a good idea.. on paper.. but I doubt that this, if implemented, would change much.

I can only speak for myself but personally I'm trying to watch all TTT related abuse reports, appeals, punishment requests etc. and if I was to spot anything like this that was handled poorly because of friendships and so on I'd intervene, but as of right now there was no such situation from what I can tell.

Like it sounds good to have some external person(s) who's not really related to neither the victim nor the reported staff member so that they can review the situation objectively but I doubt that this would work here.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113509

House wrote:
And can we then have a "staff manager team manager team"? And who will watch that the "staff manager team manager team" will be doing their things correctly as well?

(Sadly) I need to agree with the 'glorified server owner' on this one, instead of people shouting "TTT LT is corrupt" they'll most likely just shift their indexfinger towards the people in the staff manager team (and to the people in the staff manager manager team (yes i do believe that a bad joke gets better the more often you tell it)).

Don't get me wrong I do believe that this a good idea.. on paper.. but I doubt that this, if implemented, wouldn't change much.

I can only speak for myself but personally I'm trying to watch all TTT related abuse reports, appeals, punishment requests etc. and if I was to spot anything like this that was handled poorly because of friendships and so on I'd intervene, but as of right now there was no such situation from what I can tell.

Like it sounds good to have some external person(s) who's not really related to neither the victim nor the reported staff member so that they can review the situation objectively but I doubt that this would work here.

Again, I'll contact you privately later. I have no idea why you aren't messaging me on Steam or Discord as it's easier for me to just directly elaborate on my idea there
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113514

Just go ahead and call it Human Resources like normal people do.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113515

Raeker wrote:
Just go ahead and call it Human Resources like normal people do.
Internal Affairs B)
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113534

ok guys im going night-night. contact me on Steam so I can address your criticism thank
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113561

This rank hasn't been needed for the last 6 years and it isn't needed today. It's only for those holding on to their ranks that are looking to boost their self-esteem because they have a shiny new rank next to their name.



If you feel there is a need for managers to manage Head Admins and below perhaps it's better to take a look at the weak head administrators not doing their job rather than have someone else do their job for them.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113563

I will write up a full critisism to this when you've completed your suggestion, as I said to you on Steam.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113642

Morgan wrote:
This rank hasn't been needed for the last 6 years and it isn't needed today. It's only for those holding on to their ranks that are looking to boost their self-esteem because they have a shiny new rank next to their name.



If you feel there is a need for managers to manage Head Admins and below perhaps it's better to take a look at the weak head administrators not doing their job rather than have someone else do their job for them.

I mean the same could be said for the Community Council rank, yet that one was considered. Why? Because there is actual value in having someone that investigate and unearth corruption as thoroughly as the SMT. Also, I wonder if you actually read my thread at all because you'd understand that working on uncovering corruption and bias like this would require a lot more resources and you would think that the HA team would want to shift their focus to more pressing matters, as well as literally all their other duites.

Also, this isn't anywhere close to OnionRings' suggestion as that was literally just a "Community Manager 2.0"-esque ordeal. It is funny that you brought up that screenshot because it's a funny meme lol. You're looking at the name and assuming it's at all anything like Onion's suggestion. It isn't. It doesn't actually give you any unnecessary powers and honestly who cares for a badge. This is a genuine suggestion that's intended to improve the quality of the staff team, nothing else. In fact, the only reason I created this thread was because of the numerous times I've heard a mention of corruption and as such, I quite frankly just want to make sure that corruption isn't actually legitimate.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113648

Rick Johnson wrote:
In fact, the only reason I created this thread was because of the numerous times I've heard a mention of corruption and as such, I quite frankly just want to make sure that corruption isn't actually legitimate.

Some Users of the community tend to mention corruption and/or bias, some even constantly. But when asked to elaborate, they put their chit-chat to an immediate halt. Approximately a hundred times during my staffing experience on ZARP, I've heard about corruption here, corruption there, corruption fucking everywhere, but still, no explanation. Also, why are there no RA threads, not even a single screenshot, absolutely nothing, just some meaningless words.
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[Community Suggestion] Staff Manager Team! 4 years 10 months ago #1113651

Dr. Richard wrote:
Rick Johnson wrote:
In fact, the only reason I created this thread was because of the numerous times I've heard a mention of corruption and as such, I quite frankly just want to make sure that corruption isn't actually legitimate.

Some Users of the community tend to mention corruption and/or bias, some even constantly. But when asked to elaborate, they put their chit-chat to an immediate halt. Approximately a hundred times during my staffing experience on ZARP, I've heard about corruption here, corruption there, corruption fucking everywhere, but still, no explanation. Also, why are there no RA threads, not even a single screenshot, absolutely nothing, just some meaningless words.

Cool. Thanks for talking about your conversations, it's not really relevant. In my cases, there is actually a reason to believe there may be corruption involved, yet not enough evidence to act & vote on it. Hence comes the necessity for this rank. Having someone to actively investigate these claims and unearth the evidence to back up these claims is solely beneficial for the server and I don't think you understand that if a lead team member is corrupt, it can be very difficult for community members to prove with a screenshot of an incident, it's a bit more layered than that. Perhaps it's me failing to explain it in my initial thread, but Phase 1 and 2 are processes that are made to not only create an outcome and verdict for cases that already have a semblance of evidence but also dig for proof that could create a case for staff members that wouldn't be exposed otherwise.

Hopefully, you now understand why this was created, and how it's actually going to account for the complaints and reports being made. Also, perhaps they don't ever report it to you because they don't trust you? That seems to be the case in the majority of reports and complaints I've been getting, and that applies not only to corruption but quite frankly any report I get in general.

mom gaey~~
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