TOPIC: No. This is not okay.

First of all I'd like to appologize for making this thread as it most definitely will cause drama. However, when I have something set in my mind I cannot let it go. Especially as I do not believe I pushed the argument far enough when it mattered and am kicking myself now for that.

Note that everything I claim others have said has been said outside of meetings. For the sake of anomity I will not mention any names. You know who you are.

To start of I'd like to make sure we're all speaking the same language here: bullying and harrassing others is not and never will be okay.

I believe we can all agree on that fact. However, something that we apparently cannot agree on is when exactly something is considered bullying.

Bullying, in my mind, is when a person verbally attacks another person (as we're all on the internet here I'll leave out all kinds of physical abuse), almost always without their consent.

To me, however, it seems like we have gotten to a point where bullying and harassing people is considered okay by some people.

What I mean by this is that it is apparently okay for a user to verbally harass and bully in our community if they mean it as a joke. Or at least that's what others suggest.

When can something be considered a joke and when can it be considered harassment? In my personal opinion something can be considered bullying if the person receiving the humiliation does not agree and cannot laugh at it.

I find it pathetic that people disagree.

The person that got personally harassed over multiple occasions clearly did not agree to it - they made that extremely clear. They also made clear that they did not find it funny and they have never been laughing at it.

Other people for whatever reason agree with the person that publicly harassed the other person (and that other person clearly did not think it was okay) because suposedly they were "joking".

So it is suddenly okay if I say the n-word out loud and then say "Oh, no don't worry it was only a joke?"

So it is suddenly okay if I publicly (or even privately) harass and abuse other users but then say "Ah come on people, it was only a joke!"

No, it is not. "But that's different!" some people have told me. How, exactly, is racism and harassing people different from bullying and verbal abuse? Seriously, answer this to me. How is it different.

What bothers me the most, however, is that one certain person that I will not name said the following: "Learn how to take a joke."

I was standing up for other people's rights, and apparently I am in the wrong because I cannot take a joke? Something that shouldn't even considered to be a joke in the first place?

What's even worse is that this person is rather high in the ranks list and it seriously makes me question their position and rank.

People, we all know jokes can get out of hand sometimes. Usually we laugh about them, too, and that's fine. But when someone gets offended by that joke or even publicly humiliated then we should not laugh.

That's not how we treat others and that is not how any of us would ever want to be treated.

And who got bullied? Am I missing out on something?

I need to speak with you about this at some point.

I will not be on for most of the day tomorrow, however I should be on in the evening.

TheXnator wrote: I'd very much appreciate it if we could speak about it, yes. Sadly enough, I've got the exact opposite: I'll be on during the day but off during the evening.

Wonder what this is about

Sada wrote: maybe it's us calling chroma a pleb

Sada wrote: pleb

Hi, Raeker.

First of all, as someone with a diagnosed mental illness, I'd like to recognise how important it is that this topic is addressed. You're right. Bullying isn't acceptable. Hell, it's a crime if pushed far enough.

But, while I am not advocating for bullying in any way, I think it's important to remember that a lot of users - including those in our staff team - are quite young. The majority of players are under the age of 18, and I think it's important to remember that people that age are still in school, where trash-talking, joke insults, and "banter" are a part of school-life.
Plus, another thing to keep in mind is that, while this doesn't really matter in the long run - the vast majority of our players are male. Mixing that desire to be the alpha dog at an age where hormones are running wild only makes things worse.

Maybe you might be thinking "What the hell does this have to do with the topic?". Maturity isn't something this place does well. It's not necessarily the worst thing, as it's only natural, and a lot of the people here are decent. And sure, age isn't the biggest issue, all things considered. I mean, we have people over the age of eighteen who can still act like total idiots and take things a step too far at times.
But still, it's important to take note of the fact that you're in a community with guys who'll just fuck about, screw with people, and not understand. Empathy is lacking, and it's shitty, but it's also part of what defines being a youth. Understanding what empathy actually is.

I had a bad day the other day, and Katje was screwing with me, playfully. I asked him to stop, he stopped and even tried to make me feel better. As we grow, we learn to be better people, we learn to accept what is and is not correct and the ones who don't get weeded out one day.

Don't worry. Your concerns are being noted and will be addressed. If someone pushes that button one too many times, chances are, shit will hit the fan. People will suffer. And people will be punished.

There are a lot more points that can be made, but I can't really make 'em just now as it's almost 3AM and I'm friggin' exhausted. Lol.

I hate that people get treated unfairly in this community, however nothing will ever change as we can't change the internet, people will keep being immature, people will keep being trolls. It's honestly just how the internet works. Just try and cut ties with anyone that is negative and stay positive, find friends or just people to speak to that are positive, I wish you all the best man.

Thank you for making this thread, in hope it makes some persons realize that harassing is not okay indeed !

I'm getting real tired myself of hearing, after some disrespect happens, "It's just a joke" or the classic "This is the internet". It is getting really old now. I agree with Father Watson and Narexa too, as things in general are unlikely going to change drastically, because of immaturity.

However, lately, I discovered that a member of our staffs is committing such acts ... Being under 18 or not, to me it is not an excuse if you are part of the staff. You are supposed to be above the melee, to be responsible and to show the example, lead to the right things. How do you want everyone to respect rules and each other after that ?

I may be naive, but I really believe we need some change to happen !

Cleaned up topic - can I remind people to post constructivley.

As for this the best way to deal with is to take the person to one side and tell them that you are being serious and don't want them to say or do such a thing anymore. If it happens after that let someone else try to sort it out and finally report it to someone who can deal with it afterwards.

Just to make it clear: I'm not having problems with the fact that the bullying happened. The person that did it said sorry and the situation has been (mostly) dealt with.

No, what I'm having problems with and the reason for me making this post is the fact that some people defend the bullying.

That it happened is bad enough, but the fact that people defend it is what I cannot ignore.

Harrasment and bullying is NOT okay. I was bullied in school when I was 6-9 years old then I changed school. My bully hit me and did some shit I don't want to get to detailed since this is not about me.

This person that you're talking about is not a bully. This is a kid that get's irritated at a person and makes a joke about what the other person did. A joke "a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline." a joke is said in the aim of making people laugh. A person that randomly sais the N-word in an aim of offending people and then saying it's a joke is wrong.

These two people that you're talking about talked it out a week ago and haven't gotten through any commotion afterwards. They act like friends and they have fun together.

Now back to the joke part, you can't just straight up disrespect and say it's a joke since you did not attend it to be funny. But joking about what a person once said is a joke. It's a social thing that friends do and the person that made the joke saw him as a friend and joked about his actions. The other person did not like this though and the person making the joke got talked to and said sorry and never did it again as he understood that the other person didn't like it. That is very different from a bully as the bully would ignore it and just keep on doing it as I've wittnesed happening MANY times. That's the difference between a bully and this person.

We're going to talk about this. The whole prop hunt lead team. I really want to talk this out since we dissagree with eachother. And we need to be open minded in this talk to understand eachother.

Thank you for pointing this out anyway. I hope we can fix this.

Sorle wrote:
I don't get it.

Actions speak louder than words - somebody 2017