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TOPIC: @Raeker

@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897182

I'm very bored and can't get to sleep so I'm deciding to write this little response to one of your posts just to see how you respond if you do.

So you wrote:

"The discrimination part is a little more vague. It is also because of this that I wouldn't ban a user for saying "retarded" ("retarded" is in some circles also known as the 'r-word', so trust me when I say that some people are seriously offended by this). Basically you could argue that calling someone a retard classes them in a sub-human category. The use of the word implies that these people are not worth anyone's time, especially not your own. Although I personally don't exactly see it this way, it can still be classed as discrimination or at the very least disrespect. And both are very much punishable."

So just responding to the bold part alone, wouldn't it be the case that the people taking offense by seeing it that way are actually the ones being discriminatory and ableist since this is very clearly the definition of ableist, seeing someone with a disability as sub-human just because they are mentally slow. That's just my opinion and another one of my opinions is that this is true, had natural selection been left to run its course the humans with disabilities would undoubtedly be the first to go and scientifically they are inferior to those without disabilities. No one in their right mind would argue against that including those with disabilities, infact the whole concept of ableism is a bit stupid to begin with.

Even the word "disabled" means they are unable or less able to perform certain actions so are inherently inferior to those who can thus it's only natural they would be discriminated against, that's just my opinion I hope I wasn't too discriminatory in this post.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897183

Knowing our day and age, the word disabled will eventually be named as offensive and a more ‘pc’ word will have to be used.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897185

_Eddie_ wrote:
Knowing our day and age, the word disabled will eventually be named as offensive and a more ‘pc’ word will have to be used.
I mean in the UK there was the whole "differently abled" movement where across primary schools teachers would try to get the students to call disabled people "differently abled" instead of disabled but I don't know if that is still a thing or how long it lasted for, this was around 2009 or 2010 that my primary school did it.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897376

Sorry I missed this. I'll read through this soon, but I've got visitors currently so don't expect a response within the next few hours.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897484

This contains Nazi rhetoric, who infamously took disabled children from German families and rid them from their society in one manner or another. I understand that you never mention that you agree with such tactics, but the idea that people with disabilities are immediately less equal than those without disabilities is wrong on multiple levels.

People with autism, for example, have social inabilities. They do however have a higher IQ than the average person and excel in areas of logical thinking. Because people appreciate their social networks, calling someone 'autistic' is classed as an insult, because it means that those people do not have the same social capacities as "normal people". I'd argue that is almost strange - why would you insult someone for being socially inadequate even though they can do really great things in so many other areas?

However this is not necessarily a debate on the social appreciation of certain discrimatory words. This is all about the use of discrimination within the community and specifically about where we draw the line between discriminative words and regular jokes.

I have called myself, and others within the community, retarded on multiple occassions. It was only last week when I asked "Skeleton, are you retarded?" on the Teamspeak. Chute uses it on many occasions as well. Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897495

Raeker wrote:
Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

We have strict guidelines stating that all discrimination should be handled equally whether its racism or something as petty as ageism. Whilst I do agree these things should be revisited its not up to us to choose not to enforce certain rule and therefore yes we should be banning them for things such as ableism until we are told to do otherwise.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897499

LonelyDodo wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

We have strict guidelines stating that all discrimination should be handled equally whether its racism or something as petty as ageism. Whilst I do agree these things should be revisited its not up to us to choose not to enforce certain rule and therefore yes we should be banning them for things such as ableism until we are told to do otherwise.
Yet when owners of this community use the word publically, should we really be punishing users for saying the same thing?
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897500

Raeker wrote:
This contains Nazi rhetoric, who infamously took disabled children from German families and rid them from their society in one manner or another. I understand that you never mention that you agree with such tactics, but the idea that people with disabilities are immediately less equal than those without disabilities is wrong on multiple levels.

I'm gonna just ignore this part because I don't really understand it's relevance I assume it was just used as an example of ableism.

Raeker wrote:
People with autism, for example, have social inabilities. They do however have a higher IQ than the average person and excel in areas of logical thinking. Because people appreciate their social networks, calling someone 'autistic' is classed as an insult, because it means that those people do not have the same social capacities as "normal people". I'd argue that is almost strange - why would you insult someone for being socially inadequate even though they can do really great things in so many other areas?

While it is true that some people with autism have higher IQs than the average person, autism is a disability with a wide spectrum of characteristics which differ between individuals and the majority of those with autism have average or below average IQs depending on the value you decide to use, likewise not all people with autism are so socially inadequate as once again it varies, for example one of my close friends has fairly severe autism and while I don't see him as below me, I do see him as less able than me, he also describes himself as being born inferior although his hard work and determination (+ his naturally high IQ) have allowed him to excel and not only achieve what a "normal" person can achieve but go beyond as he is now attending one of the top maths schools in the UK having completed his Maths A-Level with an A* at only 15 years old which is extremely impressive. The reason I am using him as an example is he himself has accepted the fact that the majority of autistic people are born inferior to people without disabilities including himself. IQ alone does not determine intelligence and many would argue (including myself) that social intelligence is far superior to IQ. So no I wouldn't say its strange at all, if someone is born naturally inferior than you in a certain way then you will see them in that way. What is strange however is being completely ignorant and disregarding any form of achievement from the individual purely due to their disability. Autism is also however only 1 example, there are many other disabilities such as Down Syndrome etc. which have devastating effects and there is no arguing that someone with Down Syndrome can be superior to someone without it.

Raeker wrote:
However this is not necessarily a debate on the social appreciation of certain discrimatory words. This is all about the use of discrimination within the community and specifically about where we draw the line between discriminative words and regular jokes.

I have called myself, and others within the community, retarded on multiple occassions. It was only last week when I asked "Skeleton, are you retarded?" on the Teamspeak. Chute uses it on many occasions as well. Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

To be completely honest the lines that the staff members on ZARP draw seem to be changing by the week and even then they change between individuals so that's something you guys need to deal with in my opinion.


I did quite enjoy reading your arguments as they are for once actual coherent ones although I do feel like you glossed over many of my points and provided little to no counter to them.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897538

Raeker wrote:
LonelyDodo wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

We have strict guidelines stating that all discrimination should be handled equally whether its racism or something as petty as ageism. Whilst I do agree these things should be revisited its not up to us to choose not to enforce certain rule and therefore yes we should be banning them for things such as ableism until we are told to do otherwise.
Yet when owners of this community use the word publically, should we really be punishing users for saying the same thing?
It is not my job to keep the owners in line I am here to ensure users and staff members follow rules. If you have issue with certain owner you should talk to them and express this issue
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897577

LonelyDodo wrote:
Raeker wrote:
LonelyDodo wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

We have strict guidelines stating that all discrimination should be handled equally whether its racism or something as petty as ageism. Whilst I do agree these things should be revisited its not up to us to choose not to enforce certain rule and therefore yes we should be banning them for things such as ableism until we are told to do otherwise.
Yet when owners of this community use the word publically, should we really be punishing users for saying the same thing?
It is not my job to keep the owners in line I am here to ensure users and staff members follow rules. If you have issue with certain owner you should talk to them and express this issue
That isn't the issue here, so I feel like we're having two entirely seperate discussions here. My argument is that an owner is doing it, so then by all means I'd say it wouldn't be counted as rulebreaking, regardless of whether or not anyone here thinks it should be.

Also @Denis I'll respond to your thing when I have the time. I do want to quickly thank you though - not a lot of people tell me straight up that a lot of my posts are incoherent. I full well know that they aren't, however all I get is people like Spicy (love you man, don't take this offensive if you read it) telling me that they love the way I write and me going "Wait, so what I wrote actually made sense?"

So yeah, thanks for that - I've been trying to get my posts more coherent lately, it's great to see that someone appreciates it.
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897578

Ur retarded.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Now think about if i said your a Nword. Big difference
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@Raeker 3 months 6 days ago #897580

Hamzah wrote:
Ur retarded.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Now think about if i said your a Nword. Big difference
You completely missed his whole argument, his argument was that he acknowledges the huge difference but is saying that the rules do not and the rules state that ANY form of discrimination should be punishable equally (according to the rules).
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@Raeker 3 months 5 days ago #897655

You can say retarded. It's just common courtesy not to, depends how intimate the relationship is.
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@Raeker 3 months 2 days ago #899749

474 Denis wrote:
Raeker wrote:
This contains Nazi rhetoric, who infamously took disabled children from German families and rid them from their society in one manner or another. I understand that you never mention that you agree with such tactics, but the idea that people with disabilities are immediately less equal than those without disabilities is wrong on multiple levels.

I'm gonna just ignore this part because I don't really understand it's relevance I assume it was just used as an example of ableism.

Raeker wrote:
People with autism, for example, have social inabilities. They do however have a higher IQ than the average person and excel in areas of logical thinking. Because people appreciate their social networks, calling someone 'autistic' is classed as an insult, because it means that those people do not have the same social capacities as "normal people". I'd argue that is almost strange - why would you insult someone for being socially inadequate even though they can do really great things in so many other areas?

While it is true that some people with autism have higher IQs than the average person, autism is a disability with a wide spectrum of characteristics which differ between individuals and the majority of those with autism have average or below average IQs depending on the value you decide to use, likewise not all people with autism are so socially inadequate as once again it varies, for example one of my close friends has fairly severe autism and while I don't see him as below me, I do see him as less able than me, he also describes himself as being born inferior although his hard work and determination (+ his naturally high IQ) have allowed him to excel and not only achieve what a "normal" person can achieve but go beyond as he is now attending one of the top maths schools in the UK having completed his Maths A-Level with an A* at only 15 years old which is extremely impressive. The reason I am using him as an example is he himself has accepted the fact that the majority of autistic people are born inferior to people without disabilities including himself. IQ alone does not determine intelligence and many would argue (including myself) that social intelligence is far superior to IQ. So no I wouldn't say its strange at all, if someone is born naturally inferior than you in a certain way then you will see them in that way. What is strange however is being completely ignorant and disregarding any form of achievement from the individual purely due to their disability. Autism is also however only 1 example, there are many other disabilities such as Down Syndrome etc. which have devastating effects and there is no arguing that someone with Down Syndrome can be superior to someone without it.

Raeker wrote:
However this is not necessarily a debate on the social appreciation of certain discrimatory words. This is all about the use of discrimination within the community and specifically about where we draw the line between discriminative words and regular jokes.

I have called myself, and others within the community, retarded on multiple occassions. It was only last week when I asked "Skeleton, are you retarded?" on the Teamspeak. Chute uses it on many occasions as well. Although the word is disrimatory, should we really be banning for it? I think that is a more useful debate to have than the question whether or not it is discrimination in the first place.

To be completely honest the lines that the staff members on ZARP draw seem to be changing by the week and even then they change between individuals so that's something you guys need to deal with in my opinion.


I did quite enjoy reading your arguments as they are for once actual coherent ones although I do feel like you glossed over many of my points and provided little to no counter to them.
Sorry for the late response, I finally read through it though.

Anyways, I sort of agree with you. Having a disability makes it harder to do things in life than does that do not have a disability. However, I do not see why we should see them as inequal to any other human being. Perhaps this has to do with me seeing everyone as equal regardless of who they are and where they are from, which has a lot to do with my own upbringing and how I value other people altogether.

I understand where you're coming from but I disagree. And to be fair, I don't think we can really say anything aside from that. No matter what I say or what you say, I feel like we see people so differently that it's impossible for us to agree on this subject.

If you feel like I once again glossed over a major part of your argument then please elaborate and I will see if I can respond to it properly this time.
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@Raeker 3 months 1 day ago #900144

Yeah I agree, to be honest I wasn't really expecting to convert your viewpoint in any way since you are a much more positive person that me from what I can see, we'll just have to agree to disagree, thanks for responding and debating with me :)
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@Raeker 3 months 1 day ago #900206

I have HFA (high functioning autism) and I personally think that retarded should be used as a word and I constantly use it to describe when people are acting like total dipshits.
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@Raeker 3 months 1 day ago #900217

Unlisted wrote:
I have HFA (high functioning autism) and I personally think that retarded should be used as a word and I constantly use it to describe when people are acting like total dipshits.

No reason to call someone a retard if they're acting like a dipshit, just call them a dipshit lol
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