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TOPIC: [TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape

[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807022

Name - Svanzscape [Comet]
STEAM-ID - STEAM_0:1:68575193
Staff Members Name - LonelyDodo, but he isn't at fault, TheNumbers and Shadow are, as they were responsible for the warn and punishment issued.
Punishment Reason - RDM
Server - TTT
Story/Situation - I, don't have it recorded, but I do have the chat recorded, which has both stories from both sides. The story is, that in the round in question, the user, WHATHAPHUCK, KOS'ed Aidan (A proven innocent), and PSYCHOblazepotatoaim, another proven innocent. Both of who'm were dead, so they couldn't argue for the KOS. During the round, Jax was KOSed by Miia is best snekgirl, and to obviously counter it, Jax KOSed Miia is best snekgirl herself. Then, WHATHAPHUCK followed that KOS and killed Miia is best snekgirl, who was, undoubtably an innocent. As killing an innocent, and KOSing other innocents is a traitorous act, I've obviously decided to kill WHATHAPHUCK. After which, he reported me. In the chat, I've said that if a person KOS'es other innocents, and more importantly kills other innocents, they should be allowed to also be killed, regardless of the reason, as the reason could be made up.
Extra Information - As I mentioned before, I have proof of the entire thing, however as it is not a requirement I haven't bothered to put it. It's extremely sad to see

EXTRA EXTRA SIDE NOTE : This is ridiculous and unlawful. I feel as if I've been mistreated entirely, as the reasoning for my punishment was completely made-up. IF THIS WAS IN PLACE, WHICH IT ISN'T, It would cause a massive amount of problems in the server, and I mean a massive amount, as presented by me and Dodo in the next round - Dodo sat in the T room KOSing innocents as a T and other innocents went around killing them, without any repercussions.

Leave it like it was, like most active staff deal with cases like this - regardless of the reason, killing an inno or KOSing an inno is KOSable. This was extremely simple and everyone was happy with the way that worked. This ruins workflow, makes cases extremely inconsistant and defers staff from even handling them as they're unsure as to go about it.

I also request my T round to be given, as the slay made me lose my T round.

zarpgaming.com/index.php/forum/ttt/46862-ttt-server-rules

These are the server rules. Under rule 2.5, I had a valid reason to kill WHATHAPHUCK, as he called an invalid KOS on another innocent person. Yet I still was warned,

There is absolutely 0 mention in the rules of arguing against a KOS or fighting a KOS, yet it was used against me by TheNumbers and Shadow in order to get me punished. They made up rules in order to punish me, which I see as abuse or their powers.


The participating members in this were:
LonelyDodo
Jax
Miia is best snekgirl.

You can ask any one of those for their stories.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807025

You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807026

This was a wrong slay and warn and everything he said here has been true and when I died whatphafuck could of easily checked to see what I was (Evem though Miia called a KOS on me which still proves innocence) then Svanz went to find whatphafuck and killed whatphafuck because of whatphafuck knowing I was a T and killing Miia.This is a clusterfuck and svanz deserves to be released of his warnings. And in my opinion whatphafuck should be warned as he RDMed Miia while knowing I was KOSed upon Miia seeing me enter the Traitor room.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807028

Raeker wrote:
You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.

That's mad shitty, as the T round I lost shouldn't have been lost. Whatever, your rules not mine.

And yes, things added up. If he was to KOS just 1 person, I would've been more reluctant to shooting him, as accidents can happen, plus I don't want my karma to go down. Yet he KOSed another innocent, and then killed Miia.

Also, they're responsible because even though Dodo clearly didn't want to issue a punishment on me, he still was made to do it because he was told by TheNumbers and Shadow. Who, as mentioned, made shit up lmao.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807029

Jaxjaxjack wrote:
This was a wrong slay and warn and everything he said here has been true and when I died whatphafuck could of easily checked to see what I was (Evem though Miia called a KOS on me which still proves innocence) then Svanz went to find whatphafuck and killed whatphafuck because of whatphafuck knowing I was a T and killing Miia.This is a clusterfuck and svanz deserves to be released of his warnings. And in my opinion whatphafuck should be warned as he RDMed Miia while knowing I was KOSed upon Miia seeing me enter the Traitor room.

Exactly. WHATHAPHUCK, followed a 2ND KOS, issued by Jax, instead of the first one issued by Miia, and killed Miia instead of Jax.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807030

Svanzscape wrote:
Raeker wrote:
You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.

That's mad shitty, as the T round I lost shouldn't have been lost. Whatever, your rules not mine.

And yes, things added up. If he was to KOS just 1 person, I would've been more reluctant to shooting him, as accidents can happen, plus I don't want my karma to go down. Yet he KOSed another innocent, and then killed Miia.

Also, they're responsible because even though Dodo clearly didn't want to issue a punishment on me, he still was made to do it because he was told by TheNumbers and Shadow. Who, as mentioned, made shit up lmao.
So Numbers and Shadow both joined the chat of Dodo? I can understand Shadow, he's a SA now, however I cannot understand why Numbers joined.

Proof would come in handy here, you said you had it of the chat?
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807033

Raeker wrote:
Svanzscape wrote:
Raeker wrote:
You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.

That's mad shitty, as the T round I lost shouldn't have been lost. Whatever, your rules not mine.

And yes, things added up. If he was to KOS just 1 person, I would've been more reluctant to shooting him, as accidents can happen, plus I don't want my karma to go down. Yet he KOSed another innocent, and then killed Miia.

Also, they're responsible because even though Dodo clearly didn't want to issue a punishment on me, he still was made to do it because he was told by TheNumbers and Shadow. Who, as mentioned, made shit up lmao.
So Numbers and Shadow both joined the chat of Dodo? I can understand Shadow, he's a SA now, however I cannot understand why Numbers joined.

Proof would come in handy here, you said you had it of the chat?

I do. I think they joined because this was quite a complicated case and Dodo didn't really know how to handle it, I THINK AT LEAST. The report got passed around at the start anyway.



I'm really disappointed and surprised at the unlawfulness. Making up rules in order to punish me, as the reason provided was that "Miia and others didn't fight the KOS on them, so they are allowed to be killed" or something along those lines.

This is literally the 1st time I'm hearing this, and within my time of a staff member, I've followed the rule of "If you kill an inno, or KOS an inno, you can be killed" It's extremely simple and has worked every time, because shit like this adds extreme complications and ways of breaking rounds.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807036

Raeker wrote:
Svanzscape wrote:
Raeker wrote:
You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.

That's mad shitty, as the T round I lost shouldn't have been lost. Whatever, your rules not mine.

And yes, things added up. If he was to KOS just 1 person, I would've been more reluctant to shooting him, as accidents can happen, plus I don't want my karma to go down. Yet he KOSed another innocent, and then killed Miia.

Also, they're responsible because even though Dodo clearly didn't want to issue a punishment on me, he still was made to do it because he was told by TheNumbers and Shadow. Who, as mentioned, made shit up lmao.
So Numbers and Shadow both joined the chat of Dodo? I can understand Shadow, he's a SA now, however I cannot understand why Numbers joined.

Proof would come in handy here, you said you had it of the chat?

Didnt think of recording it, but I settled with Comet being innocent and in result of that WHAT demanded a second opinion so I added TheNumbers (Shadow was not on the server at that time and joined later during discussion) after long discussion me and Numbers came to diffent conclusion on how to proceed with punishments (I was not going to punish) but as this was my first day modding and Numbers is higher ranked than me I decided to take his 'orders'
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Last Edit: 5 months 1 week ago by LonelyDodo. Reason: Mixed shadow and Numbers in 1 spot
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807047

LonelyDodo wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Svanzscape wrote:
Raeker wrote:
You will not get your T round returned to you. We don't do such things within this community I'm afraid.

But other than that the punishment seems completely invalid. There's not a single reason why you shouldn't be able to kill an innocent especially if they have already KOS'ed several other confirmed innocents (which is a valid KOS reason in its own right). Of course there is such a thing as a "within reason" compromise here - if you're 100% sure that the innocent had a valid reason for killing the other innocent then you should not kill the innocent. Considering the oddity of this user's behaviour (from your perspective) it was a valid kill.

Why are TheNumbers and Shadow responsible though? I do not understand.

That's mad shitty, as the T round I lost shouldn't have been lost. Whatever, your rules not mine.

And yes, things added up. If he was to KOS just 1 person, I would've been more reluctant to shooting him, as accidents can happen, plus I don't want my karma to go down. Yet he KOSed another innocent, and then killed Miia.

Also, they're responsible because even though Dodo clearly didn't want to issue a punishment on me, he still was made to do it because he was told by TheNumbers and Shadow. Who, as mentioned, made shit up lmao.
So Numbers and Shadow both joined the chat of Dodo? I can understand Shadow, he's a SA now, however I cannot understand why Numbers joined.

Proof would come in handy here, you said you had it of the chat?

Didnt think of recording it, but I settled with Comet being innocent and in result of that WHAT demanded a second opinion so I added TheNumbers (Shadow was not on the server at that time and joined later during discussion) after long discussion me and Numbers came to diffent conclusion on how to proceed with punishments (I was not going to punish) but as this was my first day modding and Numbers is higher ranked than me I decided to take his 'orders'

Yeah, I still added Shadow because he agreed to punish me and also agreed to the made up rules provided by TheNumbers. And, as a part of the current Lead Team and a superior to administrators, I think that was really really bad.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807049

I believe Numbers was consulting to me about You and PHUCK Revenge RDMing each other or killing each other via means of KOS from other users. You two seemed to have been arguing with each other and as Numbers described it:
"TheNumbers: this is constantly
TheNumbers: and has happened multiple times
TheNumbers: on multiple days
TheNumbers: and im sick of it"

I'm not entirely sure this is relevant to this incident but I'd like to know the fake rule that was allegedly made.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807051

Firstly, I was asked for help in the chat via dodo, so I obliged.The reason you stated for killing him was because he had just killed an inno, but the kos which was copied into the chat from jax onto miia, he was following this kos; you then proceeded to kill him for this which is an invalid reason for killing him; unless there was a kos placed on him earlier which there wasnt your killing of WHATTHAPHUCK was unjustifyable, if he called false kos it is down to the person who it is called on to respond with the fact this is false, he may have witnessed the inno he kosed rdming attempting to attack him or other valid reasons for calling the kos
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807054

TheNumbers wrote:
Firstly, I was asked for help in the chat via dodo, so I obliged.The reason you stated for killing him was because he had just killed an inno, but the kos which was copied into the chat from jax onto miia, he was following this kos; you then proceeded to kill him for this which is an invalid reason for killing him; unless there was a kos placed on him earlier which there wasnt your killing of WHATTHAPHUCK was unjustifyable, if he called false kos it is down to the person who it is called on to respond with the fact this is false, he may have witnessed the inno he kosed rdming attempting to attack him or other valid reasons for calling the kos

Where in the rules does it say that that's an invalid reason to kill someone? If it's not in the rules, it's allowed and I shouldn't be punished for it. If you want to make your own job harder for yourself, be my guest, follow this difficult criteria but this is exactly what it leads to - misjudged and unreasonable and unlawful punishments.

He called 2 false KOSes and Killed an innocent. TELL ME WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED FOR HIM TO BE KILLED?

Anyone can lie in reasoning's for killing someone.

Anyone can lie in order to call out a KOS as false.

This defeats the purpose of the game. This is awful.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refun request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807059

CrankyBot wrote:
I believe Numbers was consulting to me about You and PHUCK Revenge RDMing each other or killing each other via means of KOS from other users. You two seemed to have been arguing with each other and as Numbers described it:
"TheNumbers: this is constantly
TheNumbers: and has happened multiple times
TheNumbers: on multiple days
TheNumbers: and im sick of it"

I'm not entirely sure this is relevant to this incident but I'd like to know the fake rule that was allegedly made.

That is true, we have been arguing. He didn't like my work as an ex-staff member and has a grudge against me, I tell him that rules are rules. But this is beside the point.

As for the rule that he made up, I'm not sure what you mean by that, but the evidence I've uploaded should make it clearer for you, Cranky, as everything is there. If you have the time to view it, it's a bit lengthy, around 4 minutes.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807060

It is a traitorous act if he does not have a valid reason to kill the inno yes; but in this case he was following the kos placed on miia by Jax; with regards to the false kos, multiple times you see traitors call kos and get people killed, and accidents do happen with kos which is seen multiple times as well; the following round you yourself showed this with lonely dodo being a Traitor placed kos' on people who you then proceeded to kil. The person who was KoSed then can say its a false kos, traitors do this a lot as well, same way with claiming they are proven from killing a T that someone else did.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807061

TheNumbers wrote:
It is a traitorous act if he does not have a valid reason to kill the inno yes; but in this case he was following the kos placed on miia by Jax; with regards to the false kos, multiple times you see traitors call kos and get people killed, and accidents do happen with kos which is seen multiple times as well; the following round you yourself showed this with lonely dodo being a Traitor placed kos' on people who you then proceeded to kil. The person who was KoSed then can say its a false kos, traitors do this a lot as well, same way with claiming they are proven from killing a T that someone else did.
You are basing this on an old rule that got removed exactly for the reason that it slowes down the game and is unneeded. You do not need to ask someone why they killed a specific user (except in the case of the Player vs Player rule) and thus killing them with justifiable reasons means that it is not RDM.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807063

How is it an old rule?
2.1 Random Death Match
Any player without valid reasoning cannot kill another player, appropriate reasoning to kill the player is needed.

His reason at the time was for him killing an innocent who had a KOS placed on them by someone else
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807064

Raeker wrote:
You are basing this on an old rule that got removed exactly for the reason that it slowes down the game and is unneeded. You do not need to ask someone why they killed a specific user (except in the case of the Player vs Player rule) and thus killing them with justifiable reasons means that it is not RDM.

Thank you.

And yes, I'm glad you confirmed it, the rule, that specific, would've been awful. Staffing is bad as it is, because of the many loop holing reasons that ruin workflow, this one would be chaos. Again, as presented by me and Dodo.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807065

TheNumbers wrote:
How is it an old rule?
2.1 Random Death Match
Any player without valid reasoning cannot kill another player, appropriate reasoning to kill the player is needed.

His reason at the time was for him killing an innocent who had a KOS placed on them by someone else
The rule that was removed was part of the KOS rule, the rule that this is about by the way. This isn't about RDM because Svanzscape had a reason for killing the user, this is about whether or not his KOS reason is deemed valid. And by the rules it is, therefore the punishment is invalid.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807068

That moment when you've been so inactive you completely forgot you're allowed to accept this appeal.

I will speak to Numbers and Shadow and give a proper, in-depth outcome based on that. This punishment was unneeded and almost definitely based on infactualities, however I will discuss this with as many people as possible before giving the actual outcome.

Because of school, expect a response somewhere this evening.
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[TTT Warn appeal and refund request] Svanzscape 5 months 1 week ago #807865

I have discussed this with Numbers, Shadow and several other admins. In the end we came to the agreement that this punishment is invalid as it is based on none-existent rules. Numbers has been informed of this. Shadow explained that he didn't quite understand the situation and I have told him that if he's not sure about something then he should refrain from taking part of the discussion.

However, I'd like to remind you that none of the staff are targeting you here or trying to get you punished. I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from such claims.

I'll ensure this punishment is removed tommorow afternoon. I will also give you a T pass to refund your lost T round to this.
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