TOPIC: [SSRP] Sora's Punishment Appeal

Name - Sora J Salvatore
STEAM-ID - STEAM_0:1:49773477
Staff Members Name - Captain/Tyler
Punishment Reason - Rude remarks about staff/withholding information
Server - SSRP/TS
Story/Situation - I forgot which exact day it was but in my discord with some close friends I was letting off some steam and just having some shit talk with a few of them about lead team, of course it wasn't put in a constructive way due to it just being a discord of friends and I just want everyone to know who read this and those I talked to yesterday that obviously if it were in the ZARP environment it would've been in a completely constructive way with a full explanation but again I was just with friends. I'm sure most of us have shit talked with some friends before. I feel like some truth was stretched in order for the punishment to of taken place. I talked to a good deal of people yesterday to hopefully clear a lot of things up regarding everything since I have been inactive for some time now and it all happened while I didn't really have a chance to defend myself or anything due to my time being limited. Since then I've apologized to everyone who was included in the chat logs for it being in an unconstructive way and if any feelings were hurt. The withholding information was about a now CM banned user's alt account, which at the time of him having it he was not CM banned or banned which I've confirmed with a few others he was breaking no rules at the time. After that day I figured they would've found it by going through all the logs of that night so I didn't think much of it but I still was meaning to bring it to Tyler like I usually do for just about everything. The days after when he did get CM banned was while I started having my prolonged inactivity due to a lot of IRL things going on so ZARP topics were the last thing on my mind. It was an honest mistake of just me forgetting during all of that while I was dealing with IRL things on top of me just assuming they would've found it already. I forget things while I have a lot of stuff to deal with and I've apologized for it all. I would link the pastebin of the whole discord thing but it includes a CM banned player's name etc so I don't believe it's allowed, but the lead team know who it is. People were also making the argument against me that I wasn't telling him that I didn't agree with his actions but I had told him multiple times and he knew I didn't agree with what he did, I just don't want to repeat myself like a parrot everytime I talk to him, he knows I didn't agree with what he did and he apologized so what was done was done. I may have forgotten a good deal in terms of writing out everything in this appeal but the people I spoke to the other day know everything. I would also like to include that I was demoted to SA from HA first offense, I feel since I've never been spoken to once ever while I was staff for doing something wrong or ever had an official warning before that maybe I could've had a warning instead of a straight demote. I feel like that was extremely harsh in terms of the nature of this punishment and that I wasn't given any time to defend myself or fix anything after the chat logs were leaked and spread to lead team due to my inactivity at the time. I mainly just want to fight for this to be turned to an official warning seeing as a straight rank demotion to SA for my first time ever seems extremely harsh while I didn't get too much of a chance to do anything due to my limited time at the time.

Extra Information -
ALSO, a lot of people had the wrong idea of why I had resigned. I resigned Monday because of the inactivity and I didn't think I would have enough time to juggle lead team duties on top of everything going on now but I can manage it now after going over it these past few days which is why I am revoking and appealing. It wasn't due to getting this punishment, even though I don't agree with it.

My inactivity post before the next meeting explaining why I hadn't been on at all:
zarpgaming.com/index.php/forum/staff-dis...us-inactivity#696248

My gametrackers proving my inactivity I was talking about:

Server 1 - www.gametracker.com/player/Sora/darkrp.zarpgaming.com:27015/
Server 2 - www.gametracker.com/player/Sora/darkrp.zarpgaming.com:27025/
Server 3 - www.gametracker.com/player/Sora/usa.zarpgaming.com:27015/

Personally, I support this. In my opinion people should always get an official before being demoted, except if you mass abused. As you didn't do the latter I believe an official to be more fitting rather than a demotion.

Considering what you did, I don't think this will get anywhere, but good luck still - I honestly hope this will be accepted.

SoraJS wrote:
It was on Friday, and the chat occurred during 2:25 PM to 2:30 PM.
SoraJS wrote:
You had a lot of chances to defend yourself, Tyler and Para both talked to you, as well as Chute, and Chute did urge you to apologize to everyone yet you refused to apologize to me.
SoraJS wrote:
Regardless if he wasn't banned at the time, you didn't tell anyone about the alt account until it was too late and he had already had enough time to come on while community banned, ban evaded, and traded items to other players.



That combined with the fact he told you not to tell anyone, and the fact that you did not tell anyone until after he ban evaded. You had the opportunity to do so, I know you've been inactive with an inactivity reason but still I've seen you playing games like NeverWinter, or over Whatsapp, where you could have told someone.

As for the punishment being harsh, firstly In my opinion you were not ready for the position in the first place, your first week as a head admin you wen't inactive, directly/indirectly didn't report an alt account of a cm banned member, put down all the lead team below you excluding Chummy and Sora, and were disrespecting a lot of our team members. You apologized and that's great, but you refused to apologize to me and that means you were allowing personal grudges/issues to get over your duties as a lead team member.

I'm very happy to see you're back on the lead team, but I feel staying as an SA for a while and regaining the trust you lost is the best course of action.

Morgan wrote: I didn't apologize to you at first because nothing I said about you was harsh or hurtful really so I didn't see the need for it. I had minimal to no chance to defend myself and when I did "talk" to them I was muted and was forced to type and had to leave shortly after quick because I had to do things, so that's a lie. Every CM said they were looking through the logs and at the time he broke no rules and I figured they would find it anyway, afterward, I had been dealing with IRL things and I just straight forgot. You keep trying to put things in the most malicious way to keep a harsh punishment. Yesterday I even said I apologize to you if your feelings were hurt and that it was in an unconstructive way but over the past week you've made it clear multiple times your feelings were never hurt so that made it seem like you were pushing the "I want an apology" thing just to push it. I played Neverwinter a little bit yeah late at night but also left the launcher open when I left multiple times which it still said I was in-game.

EDIT: When he said "don't tell them" I didn't say "oh yeah I won't" or anything regarding that nature I just made it clear to him that they'll probably find it anyway regardless if I do or not. In which case I was meaning to bring it to Tyler like I do with literally everything (he can back that claim up) but after that date is when shit just hit the fan for me and I forgot. I don't like how you make it seem like I was just scheming the whole time.

Morgan wrote:

SoraJS wrote:
If someone tells you not to sell staff members something that would get them in trouble, and don't say anything about that, then you're not condemning it and indirectly acknowledging that. You should have said something about that.

top security information

Morgan wrote: "You didn't condemn it, so you supported it!"

That's quite the assumption there and how you think someone is unable to forget things while they're busy, on top of at the time he was breaking no rules by having an alt account seeing as he wasn't CM banned or banned at the time plus I wasn't even sure he was going to get CM banned seeing as how long he had a good standing in the community and never had been punished before really, I personally thought he was just going to get an extended ban.

SoraJS wrote:
In my opinion if you knew he was to get banned you should have let the LT know any information you had regardless.

Mirx wrote: Afterward is when I forgot about it, he wouldn't have broken any rules so long as he didn't ban evade but I never even knew he did until days and days later after I had been gone for a while. Saying that means we should ban every person's alt account when they get banned for a short time or extended amount of time which we just don't do.

First of all
SoraJS wrote: Obviously this is never done, you'd expect people who want to get unbanned never to evade again but some are stupid enough to do such a thing. Besides that, it's almost an impossible thing to do, because sometimes people will just make new alts, and in the same case they won't evade at all where unbanning them in case of an appeal just becomes a huge hassle.

I'm not wanting to pick sides for anyone
I was informed about how this situation came to be, and even had the ability to see these discord logs for myself. And to be honest, I really think the entire situation is just complete and utter bullshit at this point.

The logs themselves didn't show much, sure he shit-talked a few people, but honestly, this is not a big deal. Many people talk shit about people with their friends and you know, that's fine.

To use Chute's Example
ChuteUK wrote: No that's obviously true, however, this is a gaming community over the damn internet, not some type of company you work at. Shit-talking is normal, it happens every day behind peoples backs I don't really do it myself too much, but it's clearly something I do see daily and this is just no exception of that.

It's not like you should get a bit butthurt over some shit talking, you've all been on the internet long enough to see that it's a common thing, oh and guess what: there's also a real-life equivalent It's called "gossiping." these things happen and honestly it's not a reason to demote someone because of it.

Understanding from the LT's perspective
I'll also take the ban evading into account. for this side.
And once again Chute's example, I get a boss would fire his employee if he found out, but honestly, if that person is a great worker he won't be fired on the spot. Instead, he'll get a push in the right direction. Sora would obviously do a great job as a HeadAdmin and just kick him out like that seems a lot heavier than what I'd ever accepted to give personally.
I agree with his statement that he should get an official instead because guidelines were also not followed.

In the end
I'm sure Sora will do a great job, and because he didn't know until a few days later doesn't really say much, he should've still told you guys which I get. But the punishment is way too harsh and something that happens all the time on the internet was used against him which seems kinda childish to me. He should not have done what he has done, yes, True. However, you guys should not have demoted him and have given him an official warning instead.

I perfectly understand why he didn't wanna apologize in the start, he's just casually shit-talking with his friends which is something you really should not apologize for. Maybe once caught, but in the end (even if it's late) he did apologize and I think if you guys would just give him another chance (from which he had none) he'll do his job right and reconsider his actions before carrying them out next time. (if there ever will be one)

That's all I have to say.
And I fully this appeal, to have it changed to an official warning instead.

Kind regards,
Anna.

What Morgan wrote

Seems to be a thing that people were supporting this demotion vote because they felt like I shouldn't have won the HA vote to begin with which I feel is an extremely poor reason as that just shows that people are bringing personal feelings into an unrelated punishment reason.

SoraJS wrote:
People supported this demotion with good reason, you're not innocent and this was well deserved.

Morgan wrote: I won't name names but I know you know what I mean. A punishment could've been made yeah I can agree but disregarding everything previous with me and going to a straight demotion with no official I don't agree with just like with any person who hasn't had one. The fact that the official warning step was completely disregarded especially when I've never fucked up in the past as staff makes it look odd to me.

SoraJS wrote:
Them not wanting you to get HeadAdmin because they felt you are not ready is not in any way considered personal feelings.

Roy Harper wrote: I don't think you understood what I meant.

Howd all you get pictures of my damn discord. Fuck off.