TOPIC: [TTT] Warning Happy - Sorle

Name - IEatBlueCrayons
STEAM-ID - STEAM_0:1:16633580
Staff Members Name - Sorle
Punishment Reason - RDM
Server - TTT
Story/Situation -

I've been on your server for a little while now and I have had multiple warnings from Admin 'Sorle' without any oppurtunity to defend myself. The first 2 I did not challenge but the third time he/she has been clearly negligent in their duties.

I happen to be an innocent that Saw the user 'Irish Thick Skin' observe a muder and not pursue the murderer, instead playing the 'detective' role as he had a DNA scanner. I used my head, put two and two together and proceeded to call out 'Irish Thick Skin' and kill him. I was proven rigth and he was a Traitor.

'Irish Thick Skin' kicked up enough fuss that Admin 'Sorle' slapped a warning and auto slay on me without any chance to defend myself. Now I stand at 4 warnings (3 from Sorle) with the oppurtunity to be banned and not play on the preffered TTT server, all becuase I saw something. used my brain and firgured out who the Traitor was.

Extra Information -

While you may have put two and two together and realised he was a Traitor, it is still not a valid reason to KOS. That is only reason for suspicion, and you can not kill based on suspicion.

if you wanne appeal the warnings use this template :
if you wanne report abuse use this template:

Hello IEatBlueCrayons,

Although I do not know about the other 3 punishments you have received, I do know for a fact that the punishment you described here is entirely valid. You did not see the user commit any crimes aside from "just standing there" and although that might be suspicious, killing him would be considered RDM on our server.

I'll bring it up next Lead Team Meeting asking whether users are or aren't allowed to KOS for someone witnessing a murder and mot doing anything, as you are sort or getting punished for thinking with your brain to find the traitors.

As it is at the very least currently considered RDM (I have punished users for it as well) and you have not used the correct template (please do so next time, it's the template Lowskii provided) I will have to deny this.

I know you cannot kill on suspicion but I think you are mistunderstand what I saw. I saw 'Irish Thick Skin' with the other Traitor kill an innocent. He did not damage the innocent but he was with the other traitor when it happened. He then acted as if nothing happened and pretended to try and use DNA. This is not suspicion, this is clearly a traitorous act. I was correct and I am being punished for spotting somehting so clearly laid out infront of me. Now when I play I feel like I cannot do the most fun part, deducing who the traitor is, I feel that now I have to play dumb to everthing I see unless they shoot me?
How is this part of the rules or fun?

Thanks for your response Raeker

'I know you cannot kill on suspicion but I think you are mistunderstand what I saw. I saw 'Irish Thick Skin' with the other Traitor kill an innocent. He did not damage the innocent but he was with the other traitor when it happened. He then acted as if nothing happened and pretended to try and use DNA. This is not suspicion, this is clearly a traitorous act. I was correct and I am being punished for spotting somehting so clearly laid out infront of me. Now when I play I feel like I cannot do the most fun part, deducing who the traitor is, I feel that now I have to play dumb to everthing I see unless they shoot me?
How is this part of the rules or fun? '

My point is I saw him with the traitor then act as if nothign had happened, he didn't just 'stand there' he watched it happen and covered for his team mate by pretending to DNA the body and play it off as if it hadn't happened right infront of him. It made him so clearly a traitor.

Additionally I had re-done my submission in the format provided.

As I stated earlier, I'll mention this in the Lead Team meeting this evening as confirmation whether punishing users for it is right or wrong. I'll post a new outcome after it, depending on whether Sorle can confirm your story.

I do agree with you, but as I - and others - have punished users for it in the past I would like confirmation.

Raeker wrote: I can confirm the story, but as it stands it is still only reason for suspicion. I'm interested to see what the rest of the LT have to say on the subject, though.

Sorry for the late response. As promised I brought this up in the Lead Team meeting yesterday and I brought up arguments for both sides.

On the one hand, users are punished for using their brains. They're assessing the situation in a specific way and draw a conclusion from the evidence provided. However, that does not mean that killing someone because he's not killing his traitor buddy (and the whole "covering up" thing seems kind of vague as well, I'm unsure what you properly mean by that) is immediately valid.

It's also a fact that the additional rule ("Not acting when someone commits a traitorous act" as a valid KOS reason) would bring plenty of issues, including possible abuse from users ("I killed player X because he wasn't doing anything when player Y shot player z!" excuses).

It's also not 100% confirmation that they're actually a Traitor. You didn't see them kill anyone. The most suspicious thing they did was cover up the murder, but I honestly don't understand what you mean by that - was it just very bad acting or was it him going "Oh, I can't find the DNA in the right place" or whatever?

Personally, I would not have punished you in this situation as it was very strange. However, we have decided that it is a rulebreak, so that doesn't make the punishment invalid.

I will tell Sorle to not punish users as quickly in situations such as these. However, the punishment will stay, as it is still valid.