TOPIC: Valid KOSes

Well in my opinion, saying it’s Hops is less clear than K0S Hops.
If this were to be said, I would consider a KOS call. However. If someone were to say it’s Hops, he can still refer to many other things than a Traitor.
Also, personally when I was admin, I never considered “it’s Hops” or any other similar a KOS call unless they clearly stated “KOS player”.

Good post to clear things up

BDnico17 wrote: The main issue is that if you're being killed and you don't have a bind, most of the time you say "It's Hops" instead of "Hops is a T" or "KOS Hops" due to how easier it is to say. From my experience "It's Hops" isn't counted as a KOS and it gets players warned, it's much easier counting it as a KOS as it won't stop players' last words be "It's Hops".

Hops wrote: Normally there is some context behind why they are saying "its Hops" so its normally pretty obvious as to what they mean when they say it, like if you hear shooting and someone screaming "its Hops" its pretty safe to assume they mean it as a KOS. Given the overall context of the game if someone were to randomly say "its Hops" in chat i cannot see much of a reason to say it other than implying they are a traitor. A KOS does not need to specifically say the word KOS so its perfectly fine to just say "its Hops" and no one should be getting warned for using it as a KOS.

Miia wrote: The issue is, nothing states it is a KOS or it isn't, that's why clarification is NEEDED for Staff and Players, I've seen staff warn players for following out on a voice KOS when they said "It's ___"

Hops wrote: Its not stated anywhere because it does not take a lot of common sense to see that it should be treated as a KOS. Whichever staff members were actually punishing for this clearly do not have the required level of common sense to be a staff member.

Miia wrote: It's completley ridiculous to base KOSes off "common sense", all rules should be shown in rules as blaming something off "common sense" is extreemly irresponsible as a member of staff imo. Why would you enforce something based off your own opinion on a situation, all rules should be in the rules otherwise why are the rules there in the first place?

Hops wrote: Its not in the rules because there is no rule specifying how you must call a KOS, meaning anything is valid be it "KOS Hops", "Hops is a traitor", "Its Hops" even "Hops walked past an unidentified body" is still a KOS. "Why would you enforce something based off your own opinion", im not basing it on my opinion im basing it on the rules, which clearly state that it does not matter how you call someone out it is always valid, the ones who are enforcing based off their own opinion are the ones warning people for saying "its Hops" as they are the ones acting on shit that is not in the rules. Its not written anywhere in the rules that i am allowed to walk around the map but people still do it, basic common sense says that if its not written in the rules its allowed so why is this any different? If you feel like a new rule is needed to limit what counts as a valid KOS feel free to make a suggestion.

edit-This means that both KO5 and K0S are both also valid

Miia wrote: The reason of this post was to ask for clarification, if you think "common sense" is a good explanation for a KOS, you need to rethink your stance as a member of staff, you abide and enfore the rules, not your "common sense".

Hops wrote: "Its not in the rules because there is no rule specifying how you must call a KOS, meaning anything is valid be it "KOS Hops", "Hops is a traitor", "Its Hops" even "Hops walked past an unidentified body" is still a KOS. "Why would you enforce something based off your own opinion", im not basing it on my opinion im basing it on the rules, which clearly state that it does not matter how you call someone out it is always valid, the ones who are enforcing based off their own opinion are the ones warning people for saying "its Hops" as they are the ones acting on shit that is not in the rules."

There is your clarification

The invalid reasons are valid, i don't know why anyone would use them but they're clear enough to get the message.

Actually you do both. As if you follow the rules to a point you will encounter situations where you will need to apply common sense.

If two players break a rule during a round in the same report what are you gonna do? You can't look into the rules as the rules doesn't state anything about what rules over rules the other.

You can't just let them walk away with the clear RDM if you only enforce the rules. With these situations you use common sense.

Miia wrote: It's simply easier for ALL players and ALL staff to enfore and know the same rule if it's in the rules. My point was, KOSes should be stated in the rules, as others can enforce different rules if we base it on common sense.

Hops wrote: My whole point about common sense was not to enforce rules by it, my point was it does not take a lot of common sense to see that "its Hops" is meant as a KOS. The whole thing about enforcing rules by common sense at least in this case is wrong, it is not common sense it is simply knowing the rules, the fact that others are enforcing this differently is not common sense its that they do not know the rules well enough. The only common sense here is knowing that you should not make up rules and then enforce them.

seems legit

Just saying then, the KOS reasons not stated in the rules aren't KOS reasons any more then? We cannot possibly list all rules as there are too many to encounter in TTT and the rules would be far too long and complicated for staff to understand which is where the "Common sense" comes from so staff know there are more situations there. In terms of KOS's saying "Its Hops" can easily be assumed as a KOS and whoever said it should clarify if they mean something else.

Your "clarification" is only making matters moee confusing and complicated. A KOS is a warning to other players that they must Kill on Sight. As long as you make it clear that other players should kill the user it can and will be counted as a KOS.

Saying "It's Bob" would be an abreviation of "Bob is a Traitor" and most definitely is a valid way to KOS someone. Same goes for your "invalid" KOSses.