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TOPIC: [TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote)

[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894009

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I have a question as i believe i have been rdmed by a staff member but, I have other staff members saying it wasn't.
So the round starts I am a innocent. Mattor Kills the person beside me shoots at me (doesn't hit) and runs away. I kill mattorS then attempt to ID his body but, it is in lava and i could barely reach it. I didn't have a chance to ID Nigerians body because i was trying to ID mattorS body. Then I turn around to ID the other body and DrConor RDMs me. Miia and DrConor State that this isn't RDM as I "didnt id the body" Even though i was in a gunfight and attempted to id both body before dieing and only IDing one. I don't want to have anyone punished I just want to clear this up as i feel it is not a traitorous act to run past a unided body while in a gunfight. It would only be a traitors act if I killed mattorS then didn't ID both bodies.
I understand what the rules say, but vote on what you believe.

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Last Edit: 4 months 6 days ago by Deathwalks.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894012

We cant see much from this had you provide a few second video clip of the start of the round proving you saw this would provide a wonderful insight but from the looks assuming the case for what it is it looks like RDM but looks inconclusive from how close it is
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894016

I watched you run away from Nigerian's unided body and also the gun fight ended before you did this, You doing this is a t act therefore it is kosable. I already discussed this with you.
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Last Edit: 4 months 6 days ago by DrConor.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894019

While it may seem a little bs in situations like this there is nothing that says not identified bodies is kosable unless they happen do be doing something. I feel the rule is fine as it is and any attempted to try to change it would over complicate a very simple matter. This is one of the many situations were whilst conor may not have been paying attention and killed you, he did have a reason, therefore the only punishment i think is needed is karma loss.
2.5 Valid KOS reasons
There are many KOS reasons and they all work in different situations and scenarios, here are a few;

- Holding/Using a Traitor only weapon without announcing that he got it from a traitor.
- Ignoring unidentified bodies/C4 etc.

Regarding ignoring unidentified bodies as a whole, it is a very difficult thing to judge. There are a lot of factors that play into situations involving this KOS reason which can make it very hard to staff around. The way i see it there are 2 types of scenario, the walks past a body and the kills and does not identify the body.

With walking past a body it can be very hard to prove if they did in fact do it so it can be a pain to staff and a lot of the time it leads to users being killed even if they had not seen the body in question. In an ideal world i would say that ignoring an unidentified body would mean you have to have seen it first, however this would be almost impossible to staff. Regardless the main issue with this is that anyone can say "walked past an unidentified body" in a response to a report and there is little staff can do to prove he is lying. Perhaps implementing a rule to force players to have to warn someone to identify a body and then kill them if they don't could fix this.

When someone kills a player and does not identify the body it is clearly KOSable. However there is no clear indication of what should happen before they are allowed to be KOSed. For example how long should be given to allow them to identify it, no set amount of time can be given because it depends on the situation, a body killed with a shotgun will take less time to identify than a body killed by a sniper. There are also times where in under a second a player is clearly not going to identify a body and just keeps on moving. This type is a lot easier to prove as staff can see in the logs if they have killed someone and if they identified it.
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Last Edit: 3 months 4 weeks ago by Miia.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894024

Drconor wrote:
I watched you run away from Nigerian's unided body and also the gun fight ended before you did this, You doing this is a t act therefore it is kosable. I already discussed this with you.
I would like to state that dr Conor believed that I killed Nigerian before he saw the logs or after I told him different. So In this situation I would believe drconor was in the wrong. Because he walked in on the gunfight as we were in the nether and he came in the portal. I was in a gunfight with mattorS and ran over to his body and ided it. So I still believe that you are in the wrong. As I was way past Nigerians body when I killed mattorS. YOU joined the gunfight. Believing that I killed Nigerian. Proving That you were unaware of what really happened.
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Last Edit: 4 months 6 days ago by Deathwalks.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894027

Deathwalks wrote:
Drconor wrote:
I watched you run away from Nigerian's unided body and also the gun fight ended before you did this, You doing this is a t act therefore it is kosable. I already discussed this with you.
I would like to state that dr Conor believed that I killed Nigerian before he saw the logs or after I told him different. So In this situation I would believe drconor was in the wrong. Because he walked in on the gunfight as we were in the nether and he came in the portal. I was in a gunfight with mattorS and ran over to his body and ided it. So I still believe that you are in the wrong. As I was way past Nigerians body when I killed mattorS. YOU joined the gunfight. Believing that I killed Nigerian. Proving That you were unaware of what really happened.

i never said you killed nigerian i just killed you for failing to id his body.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894028

Drconor wrote:
Deathwalks wrote:
Drconor wrote:
I watched you run away from Nigerian's unided body and also the gun fight ended before you did this, You doing this is a t act therefore it is kosable. I already discussed this with you.
I would like to state that dr Conor believed that I killed Nigerian before he saw the logs or after I told him different. So In this situation I would believe drconor was in the wrong. Because he walked in on the gunfight as we were in the nether and he came in the portal. I was in a gunfight with mattorS and ran over to his body and ided it. So I still believe that you are in the wrong. As I was way past Nigerians body when I killed mattorS. YOU joined the gunfight. Believing that I killed Nigerian. Proving That you were unaware of what really happened.

i never said you killed nigerian i just killed you for failing to id his body.
I have screenshots I can post them in the morning if need be.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894032

Miia wrote:
Perhaps implementing a rule to force players to have to warn someone to identify a body and then kill them if they don't could fix this.
This used to exist until last summer when we reemoved it to improve the flow and speed of the game. I don't think a return of such a rule is needed - like you said, karma loss is enough.

I feel like you're making it very difficult for yourself. Two staff members already explained to you that RDM is based around reason. If you do not have a reason for killing someone, then it is RDM. Drconor did have a reason for killing you, so as convulted as it might be it shouldn't count as RDM.

I get that you just want a third opinion, but it seems more like you're trying to get a staff member in trouble over something so completely redundant and minor. The fact that you supposedly have "proof" about this somewhere only emphasises that notion.

People don't respect other people that try to get them in trouble, and people don't respect other people that try to get their friends in trouble. I get that you don't mean any harm, but you're makinf yourself seem like the bad guy here, which might have a negative impact on your application.

I get you want another opinion, but why not ask for another opinion instead of asking for a "vote"? It makes the whole thing all the more convulted. Heck, you could have literally asked me on Steam if this was RDM or not and I'd have responded first chance I got and I don't think anyone would have minded.

I'm truly sorry to say it but this is really not doing yourself any favours.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Bezzy, DrConor

[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894033

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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894036

Raeker wrote:
Miia wrote:
Perhaps implementing a rule to force players to have to warn someone to identify a body and then kill them if they don't could fix this.
This used to exist until last summer when we reemoved it to improve the flow and speed of the game. I don't think a return of such a rule is needed - like you said, karma loss is enough.

I feel like you're making it very difficult for yourself. Two staff members already explained to you that RDM is based around reason. If you do not have a reason for killing someone, then it is RDM. Drconor did have a reason for killing you, so as convulted as it might be it shouldn't count as RDM.

I get that you just want a third opinion, but it seems more like you're trying to get a staff member in trouble over something so completely redundant and minor. The fact that you supposedly have "proof" about this somewhere only emphasises that notion.

People don't respect other people that try to get them in trouble, and people don't respect other people that try to get their friends in trouble. I get that you don't mean any harm, but you're makinf yourself seem like the bad guy here, which might have a negative impact on your application.

I get you want another opinion, but why not ask for another opinion instead of asking for a "vote"? It makes the whole thing all the more convulted. Heck, you could have literally asked me on Steam if this was RDM or not and I'd have responded first chance I got and I don't think anyone would have minded.

I'm truly sorry to say it but this is really not doing you any favours.
I stated in my first post that I didn’t want anyone to be punished for what happened. I truly felt that this should not be considered a Traitorous act. I did the vote to see if staff members agree with me. If they did I would have posted a suggestion to edit the rule. In no way was this meant to attack drconor. If I was trying to get him punished I would have posted this in report section. I now see how this could be viewed as me attempting to attack drconor and I would like to say I’m sorry for the way I handled this situation. I was truly just wanting a third opinion on the situation.
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Last Edit: 4 months 6 days ago by Deathwalks.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894038

from Conor's point of view you walked away from Nigerian's unided body. Conor simply applied the valid rule of kosing when someone is walking away from a body. Hence, it is no rdm.
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[TTT] Did I get rdmed or not (Staff pls vote) 4 months 6 days ago #894096

Miia wrote:
While it may seem a little bs in situations like this there is nothing that says not identified bodies is kosable unless they happen do be doing something. I feel the rule is fine as it is and any attempted to try to change it would over complicate a very simple matter. This is one of the many situations were whilst conor may not have been paying attention and killed you, he did have a reason, therefore the only punishment i think is needed is karma loss.
2.5 Valid KOS reasons
There are many KOS reasons and they all work in different situations and scenarios, here are a few;

- Holding/Using a Traitor only weapon without announcing that he got it from a traitor.
- Ignoring unidentified bodies/C4 etc.

Regarding ignoring unidentified bodies as a whole, it is a very difficult thing to judge. There are a lot of factors that play into situations involving this KOS reason which can make it very hard to staff around. The way i see it there are 2 types of scenario, the walks past a body and the kills and does not identify the body.

With walking past a body it can be very hard to prove if they did in fact do it so it can be a pain to staff and a lot of the time it leads to users being killed even if they had not seen the body in question. In an ideal word i would say that ignoring an unidentified body would mean you have to have seen it first, however this would be almost impossible to staff. Regardless the main issue with this is that anyone can say "walked past an unidentified body" in a response to a report and there is little staff can do to prove he is lying. Perhaps implementing a rule to force players to have to warn someone to identify a body and then kill them if they don't could fix this.

When someone kills a player and does not identify the body it is clearly KOSable. However there is no clear indication of what should happen before they are allowed to be KOSed. For example how long should be given to allow them to identify it, no set amount of time can be given because it depends on the situation, a body killed with a shotgun will take less time to identify than a body killed by a sniper. There are also times where in under a second a player is clearly not going to identify a body and just keeps on moving. This type is a lot easier to prove as staff can see in the logs if they have killed someone and if they identified it.

Exactly what miia said there is no set time to ID a body. If you are near a un ID'd body and someone sees you near it they can kill you. Often things like this come up as i recall and all staff think differently about how to punish someone. However this time it is no mistake from Drconor as there is no such rule regarding how long someone should wait before killing someone for not IDing the body in time. But something should be added talking about it i think so staff and users alike do not get confused on the topic of unID'd body's.
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