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[TTT] Rule "change" suggestion

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Eddie. wrote:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

LonelyDodo wrote:

Eddie. wrote:

LonelyDodo wrote:

Eddie. wrote:

LonelyDodo wrote:

Davidov007 wrote:

I agree with Chespin, shielding yourself is definitely a tacti you could use - Rarely, that is. Having shielding allowed would cause more problems like the one mentioned by Chespin of accidental propkilling and fake excuses, and would ultimately be useless and underused as an actual defense tool as this is Garry's Mod, not R6S. It is extremely easy to get someone killed with props because of the retarded way source physics works so :minussp:

on that.

This is where we fundamentally disagree sadly. How I see is that if shielding is removed from the forbidden uses of the props it could be utilized, but not exploited as if someone does something (for example prop kills) because of the attempt to shield its still a prop kill and thus punishable. We do punish users for making accidental RDM's and so we should punish for accidental prop abuse as well. But I guess I am in the minority with my view on the issue

Are you saying it is necessary to punish for accidents? If someone new to the server with 0 recents accidentally killed someone (depending on how they respond to the report and their attitude in the chat etc) I would not punish them for it, and i’m sure most other staff members wouldn’t.

Rule violations must have consequences. Although the consequences may differ when dealing with diffrent people as staff ethos so clearly states. A user that has a good attitude and no previous punishments nor any ill intentions with a minor rule break (for example prop pushing) should not be slain or warned because the situation doesnt require you to do so. Instead they should be verbally warned that they are doing something wrong and continuing to do so will give them more severe punishments. As staff member you should not ignore rule violations and rather just decide tge right approach on the issue.

yeah and my point was it is not necessary to punish every single user that breaks a rule if unintentional, or even intentionally if it's their first time and they are apologetic, unless it happens again, of course.

But you do. You are on the team to enforce the rules not to watch people break them and idly sit by. What I am saying is that a verbal warning is a punishment. It is an action you take against the rulebreaker and its the minimum you are required to do.
Staff Ethos wrote:

Our aim as a staff team is improve the experience for the people in the community, not to interrupt them whilst they are playing when it isn’t needed. We don’t want people that break very minor rules that have no impact on other people or servers being needlessly punished when a simple talk can resolve the situation.

As you probably know staff ethos tells you that a talking to (aka verbal warning) is a sufficient action towards the previously described user. You can just simply psay him and tell him that "Hey I am not sure whether you were aware of it or not so I would just like to let you know that you just accidentally prop pushed *"Victim"*. I would like to let you know that it is not allowed as per our server rule 1.7a and I would like you to be more careful in the future".

But hear me out when I say this. EVERY rule violation should be handled in one way or another. It would be corrupt of us to look another way on certain rulebreakers and slam the ban hammer on others. Rulebreaks must be handled but not all situations are equal and the punishments should be diffrent to diffrent situations. Surely as a SA you know this

none of what you’re saying really correlates to anything i was pointing out, i was simply saying that not every user needs to be punished (as in something that remains on their rap sheet) when making a mistake. But no, i don’t really class a verbal warning as a punishment, a verbal warning is there to warn them that if it happens again then they will be punished (aslay, warn, gag etc).

Not sure where you got “idly sitting by” from by me saying that accidental rulebreaks do not need to warrant a direct punishment in every circumstance.

We agree that not every rule violation require a slay/warning etc. The difference is that I personally (and the LT in my day) classed a verbal warning as a punishment.

Our philosophy behind this was that rule violations needed to be handled and should not go unpunished in any circumstance. I think this was something Raeker said with fancier words.

"Sitting idly by" was my reference on not acting upon a rule break. Anyway the only thing we seem to disagree is what is the definition of punishment

BBCode

[quote="Eddie." post=1137711][spoiler][quote="LonelyDodo" post=1137702][quote="Eddie." post=1137700][quote="LonelyDodo" post=1137693][quote="Eddie." post=1137692][quote="LonelyDodo" post=1137363][quote="Davidov007" post=1137332][center]I agree with Chespin, shielding yourself is definitely a tacti you could use - Rarely, that is. Having shielding allowed would cause more problems like the one mentioned by Chespin of accidental propkilling and fake excuses, and would ultimately be useless and underused as an actual defense tool as this is Garry's Mod, not R6S. It is extremely easy to get someone killed with props because of the retarded way source physics works so :minussp: on that.[/center][/quote]

This is where we fundamentally disagree sadly. How I see is that if shielding is removed from the forbidden uses of the props it could be utilized, but not exploited as if someone does something (for example prop kills) because of the attempt to shield its still a prop kill and thus punishable. We do punish users for making accidental RDM's and so we should punish for accidental prop abuse as well. But I guess I am in the minority with my view on the issue[/quote] Are you saying it is necessary to punish for accidents? If someone new to the server with 0 recents accidentally killed someone (depending on how they respond to the report and their attitude in the chat etc) I would not punish them for it, and i’m sure most other staff members wouldn’t.[/quote]

Rule violations must have consequences. Although the consequences may differ when dealing with diffrent people as staff ethos so clearly states. A user that has a good attitude and no previous punishments nor any ill intentions with a minor rule break (for example prop pushing) should not be slain or warned because the situation doesnt require you to do so. Instead they should be verbally warned that they are doing something wrong and continuing to do so will give them more severe punishments. As staff member you should not ignore rule violations and rather just decide tge right approach on the issue.[/quote] yeah and my point was it is not necessary to punish every single user that breaks a rule if unintentional, or even intentionally if it's their first time and they are apologetic, unless it happens again, of course.[/quote]
But you do. You are on the team to enforce the rules not to watch people break them and idly sit by. What I am saying is that a verbal warning is a punishment. It is an action you take against the rulebreaker and its the minimum you are required to do.

[QUOTE=Staff Ethos]
Our aim as a staff team is improve the experience for the people in the community, not to interrupt them whilst they are playing when it isn’t needed. We don’t want people that break very minor rules that have no impact on other people or servers being needlessly punished when a simple talk can resolve the situation.[/quote]
As you probably know staff ethos tells you that a talking to (aka verbal warning) is a sufficient action towards the previously described user. You can just simply psay him and tell him that "Hey I am not sure whether you were aware of it or not so I would just like to let you know that you just accidentally prop pushed *"Victim"*. I would like to let you know that it is not allowed as per our server rule 1.7a and I would like you to be more careful in the future".

But hear me out when I say this. EVERY rule violation should be handled in one way or another. It would be corrupt of us to look another way on certain rulebreakers and slam the ban hammer on others. Rulebreaks must be handled but not all situations are equal and the punishments should be diffrent to diffrent situations. Surely as a SA you know this[/quote][/spoiler]
 none of what you’re saying really correlates to anything i was pointing out, i was simply saying that not every user needs to be punished (as in something that remains on their rap sheet) when making a mistake. But no, i don’t really class a verbal warning as a punishment, a verbal warning is there to warn them that if it happens again then they will be punished (aslay, warn, gag etc).

Not sure where you got “idly sitting by” from by me saying that accidental rulebreaks do not need to warrant a direct punishment in every circumstance.[/quote]

We agree that not every rule violation require a slay/warning etc. The difference is that I personally (and the LT in my day) classed a verbal warning as a punishment.

Our philosophy behind this was that rule violations needed to be handled and should not go unpunished in any circumstance. I think this was something Raeker said with fancier words.

"Sitting idly by" was my reference on not acting upon a rule break. Anyway the only thing we seem to disagree is what is the definition of punishment

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