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jusu wrote:
I can't really be bothered explaining this here. Have some videos.
TheXnator wrote:
That doesnt even make sense, it takes cash that already exists to buy rare items. Therefore this requires further explanation or this is just wrong.
dady wrote:
Higher commodity of rare items creates inflation in cash
TheXnator wrote:
Inflation is literally one of the biggest problems on SSRP???????????????????there's 0 inflation of items, only cash. lol.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ]
SorIe wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
They are a form of currency.
They can be used for basing and raiding to earn money and can be sold / traded, hence they are a form of currency. Liquid, however still currency, as they have a value attached, even if that value does depend on many factors and can vary a lot.
Introducing an ability to add more suits into the economy without any kind of special event is a bad idea. It will just increase the number of people with special suits trying to raid the bank vault for the events and will worsen the inflation for sure.
We should be looking for ways to take money and resources away, not put money in. Trying to give more money / resources to the newer players rather than taking it from the already rich players is going to make the problem worse. Take a real world example. There are a lot of rich people in the world, but also a lot of poor people. In order to ensure that the poor people can get money, you don't just give them more stuff. You take away from the rich in the form of taxes to level it out more. (Though obviously the real world is a lot more complex than virtual economies).
One of the main causes of hyper inflation, and the reason that we have it in ZARP, is the introduction of more money (ie. printing more money). In ZARP, this comes in the form of suits, which have been introduced through events, however also through past exploits which left a massive lasting scar in the servers. The argument that they are not a form of currency is incorrect. Money is worth so little on the server now that the players with the most suits are the ones with the most opportunity. They are in their own way the richest players.
If more suits only go into the economy when there are seasonal events which can have the rarity adjusted by DEAD/Chute, they have the most control over when they go into the economy and can directly influence what players are able to get and how often. If they came from the vault as well, even just the less OP suits, we would just have everyone with ACS and Nano Suit and the ability to sell / trade those further into the economy.
Suits are able to be ripped and new ones are not often added into the economy, hence why the number of suits should decrease rather than increase. To implement something which would consistently increase the number of suits in the economy would be an awful move.
You're making this out to be an extreme move; golden vault day is once a week and you're going to get 2 or 3 suit blueprints maximum per golden vault day.
Additionally, the fun elements of the server are the suits and the special weapons for most people. I don't understand how you can see giving people more low-tier suits as a bad idea? Making them more common still evens the playing ground for newer players because they can obtain them somewhat easily as the price will be reduced heavily, and allows everyone to have more fun and worry less.
You still haven't addressed the fact that you can already get them through the blueprint cases from bank raiding and from levelling up as police, so the idea that there's a set amount is entirely false. By creating these as golden blueprints, they've handshook away the idea of having a set amount of these in the economy, as they're evidently meant to stay as cheap, low-tier options which are relatively abundant. However, they've come to be rarer than juggs and hypers at this stage.
Additionally, you still haven't addressed the fact that we're not supposed to be randomly excluding certain golden BPs from golden vault day; x4 boosters are INCREDIBLY rare, however obtainable from golden vault day quite commonly? You're not going to get a massive influx of suits from this, so the idea of excluding them for the sake of excluding them is silly.
Considering you still haven't addressed how hyperinflation causes issues within the scope of SSRP's economy, I'm not going to address your point about how it causes hyperinflation.
It could be argued that this somewhat indirectly takes away from the rich, as the price of some of their assets is lowered by introducing more of them to the economy. Even then, why would we want to take away from the rich? To make the server even more dry for those who have worked hard just to be unable to get any items?
Introducing items to the economy is a good idea - introducing better money-making methods isn't. There isn't magically going to be a significant influx of cash into the economy. This doesn't alter any of the primary money-making methods. The price will drop and the total net value of these suits in the economy will remain relatively constant as a result.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ]
SorIe wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
firstly: the concept is that they should already be available and aren't for some reason, spartan lasers and orange core printers aren't either because they're new too
secondly: the idea is that there needs to be more in rotation overall, which will lower prices - still a positive effect for new players
thirdly: it's not currency, as there's no set value to the suit, the only value is that defined by the player
finally: you're making out hyperinflation to actually have an impact in an isolated economy, there is little to no impact and the rate of increase on the amount of money you make is still proportional to the rate of inflation
primary income source is mining - gem prices adjusts over time as there's no defined price.
secondary source - printing - special printers have seen drastic drops in price to accommodate for the inflation and as such the risk of using these is minimal
the only real income source that has been left in the past is drugs, however that was a significant period of time ago and as far as I'm aware there's most likely gonna be some adjustments to drugs as a less risky option for new players
SorIe wrote:
Because the gamemode should not revolve around suits and special items, especially since it is going to be easier for those who already have suits and special weapons to actually raid the vault and to prevent those without from raiding it, hence it is unlikely to add in these items for newer players.
When it comes to virtual economies, you don't want to just add in more currency, either in cash or liquid form (suit and whatnot). We should be looking into ways to drain suits and money out of the economy and keeping the control over the economy in the hands of the Community Team with various sinks and anchors rather than adding in more things like suits into the cycle, handing that over to the players and making the current hyper inflation even worse than it is currently.
TheXnator wrote:
this post just reeks of a lack of experience with the current state of the gamemode
the gamemode at this stage revolves around suits and special items, why would be putting a few more into the economy every friday be such a negative thing?
keep in mind these are the cheapest suits, making them a good option for newcomers
arguing for the idea of not adding any more items into the economy is essentially arguing for the server's demise at this stage
Probably shouldn't be putting more suits into the economy.
this post just reeks of a lack of experience with the current state of the gamemode
the gamemode at this stage revolves around suits and special items, why would be putting a few more into the economy every friday be such a negative thing?
keep in mind these are the cheapest suits, making them a good option for newcomers
arguing for the idea of not adding any more items into the economy is essentially arguing for the server's demise at this stage
Because the gamemode should not revolve around suits and special items, especially since it is going to be easier for those who already have suits and special weapons to actually raid the vault and to prevent those without from raiding it, hence it is unlikely to add in these items for newer players.
When it comes to virtual economies, you don't want to just add in more currency, either in cash or liquid form (suit and whatnot). We should be looking into ways to drain suits and money out of the economy and keeping the control over the economy in the hands of the Community Team with various sinks and anchors rather than adding in more things like suits into the cycle, handing that over to the players and making the current hyper inflation even worse than it is currently.
firstly: the concept is that they should already be available and aren't for some reason, spartan lasers and orange core printers aren't either because they're new too
secondly: the idea is that there needs to be more in rotation overall, which will lower prices - still a positive effect for new players
thirdly: it's not currency, as there's no set value to the suit, the only value is that defined by the player
finally: you're making out hyperinflation to actually have an impact in an isolated economy, there is little to no impact and the rate of increase on the amount of money you make is still proportional to the rate of inflation
primary income source is mining - gem prices adjusts over time as there's no defined price.
secondary source - printing - special printers have seen drastic drops in price to accommodate for the inflation and as such the risk of using these is minimal
the only real income source that has been left in the past is drugs, however that was a significant period of time ago and as far as I'm aware there's most likely gonna be some adjustments to drugs as a less risky option for new players
They are a form of currency.
They can be used for basing and raiding to earn money and can be sold / traded, hence they are a form of currency. Liquid, however still currency, as they have a value attached, even if that value does depend on many factors and can vary a lot.
Introducing an ability to add more suits into the economy without any kind of special event is a bad idea. It will just increase the number of people with special suits trying to raid the bank vault for the events and will worsen the inflation for sure.
We should be looking for ways to take money and resources away, not put money in. Trying to give more money / resources to the newer players rather than taking it from the already rich players is going to make the problem worse. Take a real world example. There are a lot of rich people in the world, but also a lot of poor people. In order to ensure that the poor people can get money, you don't just give them more stuff. You take away from the rich in the form of taxes to level it out more. (Though obviously the real world is a lot more complex than virtual economies).
One of the main causes of hyper inflation, and the reason that we have it in ZARP, is the introduction of more money (ie. printing more money). In ZARP, this comes in the form of suits, which have been introduced through events, however also through past exploits which left a massive lasting scar in the servers. The argument that they are not a form of currency is incorrect. Money is worth so little on the server now that the players with the most suits are the ones with the most opportunity. They are in their own way the richest players.
If more suits only go into the economy when there are seasonal events which can have the rarity adjusted by DEAD/Chute, they have the most control over when they go into the economy and can directly influence what players are able to get and how often. If they came from the vault as well, even just the less OP suits, we would just have everyone with ACS and Nano Suit and the ability to sell / trade those further into the economy.
Suits are able to be ripped and new ones are not often added into the economy, hence why the number of suits should decrease rather than increase. To implement something which would consistently increase the number of suits in the economy would be an awful move.
You're making this out to be an extreme move; golden vault day is once a week and you're going to get 2 or 3 suit blueprints maximum per golden vault day.
Additionally, the fun elements of the server are the suits and the special weapons for most people. I don't understand how you can see giving people more low-tier suits as a bad idea? Making them more common still evens the playing ground for newer players because they can obtain them somewhat easily as the price will be reduced heavily, and allows everyone to have more fun and worry less.
You still haven't addressed the fact that you can already get them through the blueprint cases from bank raiding and from levelling up as police, so the idea that there's a set amount is entirely false. By creating these as golden blueprints, they've handshook away the idea of having a set amount of these in the economy, as they're evidently meant to stay as cheap, low-tier options which are relatively abundant. However, they've come to be rarer than juggs and hypers at this stage.
Additionally, you still haven't addressed the fact that we're not supposed to be randomly excluding certain golden BPs from golden vault day; x4 boosters are INCREDIBLY rare, however obtainable from golden vault day quite commonly? You're not going to get a massive influx of suits from this, so the idea of excluding them for the sake of excluding them is silly.
Considering you still haven't addressed how hyperinflation causes issues within the scope of SSRP's economy, I'm not going to address your point about how it causes hyperinflation.
It could be argued that this somewhat indirectly takes away from the rich, as the price of some of their assets is lowered by introducing more of them to the economy. Even then, why would we want to take away from the rich? To make the server even more dry for those who have worked hard just to be unable to get any items?
Introducing items to the economy is a good idea - introducing better money-making methods isn't. There isn't magically going to be a significant influx of cash into the economy. This doesn't alter any of the primary money-making methods. The price will drop and the total net value of these suits in the economy will remain relatively constant as a result.
Inflation is literally one of the biggest problems on SSRP???????????????????
Higher commodity of rare items creates inflation in cash
That doesnt even make sense, it takes cash that already exists to buy rare items. Therefore this requires further explanation or this is just wrong.
I can't really be bothered explaining this here. Have some videos.
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