TOPIC: Discussion That Needs To Finally Happen....

Okay guys... a lot of people complaining about rulebreakers. If you've been on S3 at all you've prob met someone in my gang The Billionaires.

Here are a collection of my thoughts on another thread, but I make some serious points I believe ADMINS/USERS & ALL alike should read.

TL;DR : Long term players of ZARP have adopted a policy of hating on players that are not economically on their level, or aren't on their level as far as raiding in RP. Well... this is what scares away new players & this isn't how you create a healthy community. Developing healthy relationships between members NEW & OLD starts today.....

TO ADMINS (Copied from my reply to an Admin) : Okay well here's a solution. You want the rule breaks to stop, well it's a big server & your job is TECHNICALLY to administrate it , now sure it's fair that you are allowed to enjoy too, but I believe if you actually are here to stop rulebreakers & not just seeking power then you shouldn't complain about it.

2nd, you raided a base okay fine i'm not complaining. What i'm saying is, the base was EMPTY, you could clearly see that, the only point I could see to raiding it is to just kill everyone. Now lets put this into perspective, there's nothing to gain from doing it... you piss off a bunch of new players that really some of them have NOTHING to lose from rule breaks. NOTHING. Literally some of them I MYSELF AGREE, they are here to break rules & that's that. But guess what ? Firing them up will help neither my nor your case.

It's pretty simple guys, don't bother the noob, just HELP them like I INSIST on doing. IF they RULEBREAK then you take care of them like any staff member/ good player should. Players can help by taking screenshots LITERALLY 1 F**** CLICK & showing it to the admins or reporting it.

I DO NOT think the problem is the PLAYERS, not the GANG, & not even the STAFF.

What's the problem then? : Well I think this server has a lot of history, through my 1 month or so here, i've noticed a few things.

1. Server 3 was literally dying, during weekdays it would be cool to see if there's ANYTHING happening at spawn or people even basing.

Solution: Okay lets put this into the spotlight. Server's dead, not many players except the regulars (I noticed this ESPECIALLY during my time without the gang). In order to fix a problem, why not put it into the eyes of the problem.

Rulebreaking occurs on two seperate occasions:
Rulebreaker Type #1. You come into the server INTENDING to rule break & with NO INTENSIONS of playing. (This form of rulebreak CAN NOT BE STOPPED. Not by ANY of us. If they come in, with the mind set of breaking the rules, then they just need to be found & purged from the server ASAP.

Rulebreaker Type #2. I'm a player, I'm upset about something or NEGLIGENT to a rule such as NLR (which 90% of the time seems to just be pure negligence.)

How do we solve #2? Which is the only solvable form.
1. Admins find rule breakers, act tougher on rule breakers. (Warning them 3 times, then warning another 3 times gives Rule breaker type #1 plenty of time to get out their energy & break all the rules they can. While rulebreaker type #2 enjoys knowing that a small rulebreak wont end up in their expulsion or suspension from the server.)( THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM READ THIS FIRST)

2. Okay so we've got this far (not really that far) ... what do we do about RB Type #2?
Okay well in sequence...
a. I come into the server as a new player, I get invited to a gang & get $100K cash from my gang members
b. I now enjoy knowing i'm in a team, I have team members already in a server I just joined.
c. I have money to use in the server, if I get frustrated about losing a printer that cost me my whole $10,000 RP cash i'm way less likely to flip out right?
d. So I get raided, lose my printer, but guess what? Instead of flipping out, since I got so much RP cash from my new gang teammates I carry on & base with them.
e. I make friends in the server & start to progress. Making friends makes me more inclined to RETURN or CONTINUE PLAYING.
f. So here I am, a new player, I have a few friends in a server I just joined. Should I rulebreak? Well if i'm RB Type #2 then I definitely would have to think it over... Can I calm myself down? Do I have something to lose other than my entry to this server? *YES FRIENDS & NOW TIME INVESTED*
g. I decide whether I want to rulebreak or if I can control myself I don't.

Guys it's pretty simple, PEOPLE FEEL AT HOME, they STAY. People feel NEGLECTED they LEAVE.

It's just that so many players here have become comfortable with this TIGHTLY knit community that they can't accept new outsiders. Yes there will be rulebreakers *THATS PART OF A SERVERS GROWTH* .

You CAN NOT stop rulebreakers from EXISTING. You can help solve the problem & be a part of the solution or you can add lighter fluid to the FIRE as Clarky did today. It's such SIMPLE reasoning that is why I'm so adamant on running this gang. Because I appreciate this server, I think some players that have been here too long are too unwelcoming .

SO IF WE ALL STOPPED TRYING TO STOP THE BILLIONAIRE GANG & INSTEAD FOCUSED ON RULE BREAK PREVENTION. We would all progress together. It's so simple .

Anyone that disagrees... well you may have a valid point but I'm saying this all from a point of experience running an ACTUAL corporation in real life. I don't need to delve into these details, but let me put it this way.

A few staff & closely trusted members know this. I'm a CEO/President of a CORPORATION in real life. I play Garrys Mod on my free time, & all i'm doing is applying REAL WORLD strategies to the game. It's working too, trust me. It's funny to watch.

This is how #BREXIT & #TRUMP even work in the real world. Lol hope someone reads this & thinks a few times over before replying some bullshit now.

ALSO NOTE TO EVERYONE: I am willing to listen to everyone's input. But simply put, seeing everyone blame the gang is just not how to solve a problem. Let's actually work on a solution if everyone wants one so badly.

What's Billionaire?

Ace wrote:
If you're not going to read it , then I can't help you. Here's some proof of negligence. Jumping to conclusions as is normalized in this server.

TheBestSoheil wrote:
Who says I didn't read it? I wouldn't expect a "real life ceo" to be so quick at jumping to conclusions.

Ace wrote:
You literally asked something that is answered plenty of times in the OP. Lol.

Alright I'll be straight, I was messing with you.

On a serious note though, the thread has a few flaws:
- If people feel 'loved' they won't necessarily stop rulebreaking every once in a while

- Don't ever try to apply real world knowledge into Zarp, this community is literally unique in a sense that you can barely declare anything in it. Try explaining why rare item prices go up in an update where they are temporarely available again. Simple rules like demand&supply don't apply here.

- Mentioning Trump&Brexit is a bit far fetched, which have more to do with a rise in nationalism caused by multiple factors in the western world like immigration and economic crisises than with "not having enough love"

- You mention several times that the thread isn't meant to be about your gang, but in your conclusion you ask everyone to "stop trying to stop Billionaires"

- You talk about how people "harrass" new players, which is something only a minority of dickheads do. When a new player asks for help in ooc, their questions immediatly get answered and there's always someone willing to help them out.

Ace wrote:
First off, okay no problem messing around is fun.

1. You can apply real world knowledge to ZARP, I can guarantee it. I have done it numerous times to my success in the server.

2. I have no clue why rare item prices went up, show me some examples & I bet you can I draw a mathematical conclusion to it.
From what I've seen, Supply & Demand definitely does apply. Magik Boxes event they were 25Mil, Magik Printers went sub 20Mil, during a time of high supply.

3. Your right that part is flawed, I appreciate you pointing it out. People feeling "loved" or "accepted" will however lower the likelihood of rulebreaking. Would you agree?

4. Yes I point to stop attacking the billionaires as they are as everyone notes, NEW PLAYERS, which deserve respect as well as all players do. However this thread is mainly about how everyone's attitude towards new players is as it is.

5. You can apply #brexit & #trump knowledge to this. Basically anywhere whether the population is small or a bit bigger you'll usually see that 50/50 split. Maybe far fetched, but trust me it can be brought to such a small sample group as this servers population.

6. Okay, well, you mention dickheads. There are plenty of old players that are "dickheads" in this server.

Without wanting to point my fingers

PenE - first day of billionaires vowed to raid us everyday
Sam The Sausage - RDM All Day our 2nd day, & Raids
Mytic - Mass RDM
Clark - Mass RDM / Raid *We had no raidables once again just for fun*
Basically Everyone in Born in Blood
Basically Everyone in Frag Angels
Bobby Bobby *However he apologized & helped them after*

+ More I don't even feel like naming.

I believe you are both right in different arguments that you make.
-Before we get started, please note that even though I am currently IN the Billionaire's gang I will be as unbiased as possible in my argument. I will give arguments for both sides of this topic.
I am going to make arguments from experience, not speculation.

I am going to start this with an argument for Billionaire and then for Ace, but I may mix in arguments for both sides in each section.
I am relatively new to this server. I started playing consistently back in July and I have now and now understand how this server works.
- I agree with the fact that new players should be able to have people to work with.
Let me tell you from experience. Playing ZARP SSRP without a gang or friends to play with is NOT the most fun thing in the world.
When you join a gang or have some feeling of having people to rely on in SSRP, you WILL have a better time. I know this from experience.
On my first day of ZARP, I was raging so hard that I actually got lightheaded and had to walk away for hours before I calmed down. (I am a lot calmer now. I had a stressful Summer.) If I had some people to help me, I would have not raged as hard and broken some rules on my first day. (Mostly NLR, I got warned.)

My counterargument to this is that the gang members may act in a way that promotes rulebreaking. In order to do this correctly, the gang needs to be watched over with a careful eye from people who are more experienced. Also, some people cannot calm themselves in a stressful situation. Point "f" is partially true but also has some flaws.
This is true, although the goal is not to COMPLETELY eradicate rulebreaking--a task that is impossible--but you are correct. NOTHING can completely eliminate rulebreaking.
You are correct in that statement. Those events happened for completely different reasons and are pretty much irrelevant in this post.
This may sound a little biased, I am sorry in advance.
In my experience, there are a lot more of the quote-on-quote,"dickheads" than you would think. Sure, questions may be answered in chat, but other than that, experienced players tend not to tolerate and assist newer players.
BUT there are some exceptions; in fact, MANY exceptions. There are people on this server who really care about new players. I would say it is about 75% of the people who play are willing to help newer players (not an actual statistic, I cannot collect that data.) But that other 25% can cause major issues with new players.
Except for the Supply&Demand portion of this argument, I do agree the general idea you are implying in this argument is in fact valid. This server certainly does not work like the real world, but like its own separate thing. (Supply and Demand does exist it is just weird and not as clear-cut as most people expect it to be as the markets are a little less controlled on ZARP.
Alright, this is something you should NEVER do in a post. It drives hate towards these people when most of the time, they don't deserve the amount of hate they get. (You would be surprised.) It is not just to name names on a post like this and try to direct hate towards these people. Its not a nice thing to do. Also, you did exactly what you said you weren't going to do: point fingers.

In conclusion you are both correct about certain things in your arguments, but they both have flaws. You both have valid points and I made this post to kind of support discussion before anyone takes a side.

-Thank you for taking time out of your day to hear my spiel about this topic. Thanks and see you in-game!

If I sounded biased, honestly just tell me how I was and I will try to fix it. I want my argument to be as neutral as possible.
(Just don't say it in a nasty way. )

Very well thought out reply & I appreciate you taking the time to read it & reply to individual points. I appreciate your neutral input.

I LOVE that you are saying that you are "saving s3" evenin actuality you are just bringing more rulebreakers to the table and ruining the fun instead of making it better. May I remind you that you are also using these noobs trust to your advantage. Say if you have a grudge with someone like me seeing as I hate everyone in your gang, well you will tell them all to say something in OOC. Also your buddy Murda has a big problem with RDMing. He constantly walks up to me and RDMs me with a jackhammer then acts like he destroyed me. Then afterwards he false demotes me for usually not doing job and he tried to change his name to hide that its him thinking I won't notice. Whenever he does this he goes "ALL BILLIONAORES VOTE YES" and boon I get demoted. Also billionaire you aren't innocent either. Whenever I or any of my fellow gang get on you order your while gang to harass us. Constantly making them say shit in OOC like "fag angels sucks" Jesus Christ that isn't even an insult anymore seeing as it's been used so many times. And it's funny how you see at as insulting towards us. On a lower note however, you also call me a loser whenever I am outside your base. Just cause I'm outside your fucking base doesn't mean I want to join your shit gang because i don't. I stay outside your base to see who is rulebreaking then usually have an admin spec them to see if they will do it again. There are so many other little things you do like printing while building etc. but that'd take too long to list them all.

So you think all this, but your cool with advert abusing, harressment and basicly what is akin to bullying of players you don't like. It seems like I have to constantly tell people this but two wrongs never make a right. You can't solve people breaking rules by breaking rules to stop them. You either talk to them or if they are just there to cause trouble. You stop them by using recordings (use a third party application or the built in demo function) of them breaking rules, and then correctly gathering evidence to create a ban request/demote request. As of this post you have 7 posts total in the report abuse section. If you really want to help then you need to do it in the correct manor, especially if you are faced with situations where no admins are around to deal with it.

Why don't you encorage your gang members to equip themselves with the necessary tools to actualy defend them selfs. If you really enjoy the server it should be more then worth it to help out in a constructive way.

EMP wrote:
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're correct & I didn't follow that mentality in the beginning as I took great offense from those attacking us for no good reason.

I encourage the gang members to do good & defend themselves however this isn't exactly easy when multiple users already hate them without meeting each individual player & weeding out rulebreakers.

Once again, I'm not okay with bullying, it was just in response to bullying. Bully the Bully that's what has always worked & like I said, 2 wrongs do not make a right I agree 100%

EMP wrote:
I swear EMP waits for the perfect response so he's always a savage on the forums

TheBestSoheil wrote: I know you mentioned you have experience running a corporation (not that I'm all that sure I trust anything on the internet these days ), and thats pretty cool if true. But we (Red, Chute, and I) have had years apon years of experience dealing with player conflicts. We have always found that it is best to be the bigger person, you never fight fire with fire. If you do you just lower yourself to that persons level and at that point are no better then they are.

Any time you try and solve rule breaking by breaking rules it only exponentially increases the difficulty of dealing with that situation. If you know you are in the right then the best soloution is always to gather evidence, you don't feed the trolls even more by adding to the chaos. Its so much easier to look at a situation and say yep look it was that guy very clearly breaking rules, now he gets punished. Instead of having to try and see who started what only to end up at the conclusion that both partys are in the wrong.

EMP wrote:
I'm not trying to prove anything with that first point, just providing some background so that my words are given a little more validity at least, I could of course prove this privately... not looking to do so like I said that's besides the point.

Moreover you're completely correct & I try to avoid being in that predicament unfortunately some times I do fall short of that. While what i'm mainly trying to say in that point is that many of the newer players are more inclined to fight fire with fire as are players with more to lose.

A great point you make in summary is that, if everything was recorded, things would go over more smoothly.. I agree & disagree. Yes, however in order for that to work we would also need the ability to either A.) Predict at what time we are going to encounter a rule break. B.) Record right when a rule break occurs & hope that it continues so you further gain evidence. C.) Always record your screen. As you can imagine this is difficult & most likely why so many reports go without proof.

I agree with what you're saying but also please remember newer members are more volatile in behavior & mood. Meaning they're more inclined to either rulebreak in retaliation or in origin.

Cheers

2 points
1 new players join zarp s3 everyday
2 Don't make ur gang look like the victims of this hate a part of your gang are these rule breakers

Oddly enough i was just on TS with Mix3rz and he was complaining that 14 i think of your members had been banned that day, and while on s3 7 of them broke NLR all at once? I'm only just settling back in the community to this new gang that reminds me of Mad Men. Just simply it's not the gang because specific players are breaking rules. Now i don't condone pointing fingers because people will always break rules because they don't read them. There is no harmony but we need to find a neutral because so far everyone who's NLRED, Rdmed and RDAed me for the past 2 days has been Billionaire members and i'm not joking. Just ask your gang members to read the rules over.

PS no i didn't read replys just the some of the main topic.

Wanna know 99 percent of the rulebreakers?
The whole of billionare gang.
Minges

Mytic X Toxic wrote: The rest 1% is you mate.

Lovin' the salty aftermath of a raid, ill be back bois<3