TOPIC: The "Randomness" is killing the community

Greetings everyone..

Before I begin, I would just like to say, that I mean no disrespect to the actual staff and owners of this server..

I have been RP'ing for a lot of years now, not just in Gmod but in general, a few weeks ago I decide to do some research to try and find a new RP server and with a good community, I was multiple times recommended to try out the Zarp gaming community..

So a week ago I started playing here, I was quite surprised on what the server had to offer, and this seemed liked a good place to start for me and my buddies..

Most of the people here seems to be quite dedicated when it comes to RP'ing, which is great!
There are of course a few exceptions, like kids or "for a lack of a better word; Idiots!" that doesn't know to how interact with others, when it comes to simple discussions or problem solving..
Like when they can't grasp the common term; Just walk our separate ways..

When I write; "The "Randomness" is killing the community"
I don't just mean one aspect of it, I mean it as a general term..

You can't always be there, to stop people from RDM'ing or being extremely offensive to others..
Actually I just think, if your a normal player on a server, my advice is just to ignore it and don't give in, or start hunting them down for a so called revenge rush, because it will just keep lighting the spark in others to keep endless chain going..

It's the same with the demoting system..
I can't count the times, when I saw a vote for demoting a player with the reason "Random" and they get it through!
So then, most of the times the one person, that's actually doing hes job right, gets demoted by people who doesn't care..
Where is the fairness or justice with a system like that?

Or what about when some players want to become the Police, to try and help out defending others..
If you join and most of the people are playing the "Bad guys" you can keep trying calling vote, but the likeliness of wasting your time becomes quite obvious, if you don't get voted the first 3 times..

One night I was testing it and gave it a lot of attempts "I didn't spam, I waited 3-5min between every attempt" Just to see what the others had of comments in the OOC chat, and I was amazed of what people had to say, you wouldn't believe the crap I had to put up with..

The other server that I tested, didn't use the voting system for players who wanted become apart of the law enforcement, they used a randomized test that you had to pass, and it was done really well, that way they had a lot more law enforcement, and others was happy about that..
The good guys felt safer and the bad guys had a lot more action!

Building and defending your base or shop, against raids from whomever is a great opportunity, and it's fun to explore your creativity, however very few players actually follow the rules..

It ranges from FDA, Prob-blocking or having the upper hand on your raiders by using world glow..
As law enforcement, if there aren't any admins around, you could spend hours if you wanted too, and then when you actually get in, the players inside just violates the NLR..

I know, I know! There will always be rule breakers, the world is not perfect, but when there aren't admins around, players naturally breaks way less rules..
When there aren't any around or any sign to players getting helped by the staff, the place turns into total anarchy!
I'm not even kidding! You won't believe the massive shit storm I have seen from time to time, haha..

Speaking of the staff, again I mean no disrespect!
Some needs to be a lot harder, regarding banning players who doesn't care about the rules..

"An example, I witnessed a situation where the police and sas, where trying to recapture a gun sellers shop, and a player refused to leave the scene, while threading with demotes if he was killed, the player was killed or arrested after being warned, and then got one of the cops demoted..
He wasn't kicked, banned or even warned for doing that, and there was a Mod present at the time.."

I don't know exactly how the system works, when players wants to become Mod's if they just pay the donation or not..
But some doesn't seem to understand or respect the role they have been given, or are clearly to young to handle the that kind of responsibility..

I also encountered a few admins on the server, that in my option was a bit rough on people. that didn't mean to break the rules or did it accidentally, including myself..
This could also have been because of stress, or having to coop with too many annoying or downright arrogant pricks..

A few years back, I owned a small shipping business for 4 years, had a few employees too..
I always told them that, treat every customer with respect and don't stoop to their level..
Even if they encounter rude customers, or customers who didn't follow the our proper safety polices, and ended up with a damaged or destroyed shipments

We are guests on your server, and we know that..
However, if we are to build a community together, mutual respect is needed..


It's not all bad though, I didn't just come here and spend an hour to whine..
I'm merely trying to come with a few suggestions and give a piece of my mind, because you have a great thing going on here..
The server and the way you choose to customize it, is one of the best I have seen so fare and one of my favorites..

If you don't like this post and think it's just offensive whining, then by all means just remove it..
Or ban me from the forums, if you don't want me here..

Best Regards!

-Chazil

It's obvious that you care about the community and are willing to speak your mind about what you think needs changed which I respect. I also agree with you, this stuff is very common and sometimes there is fuck all we can do about it, but the server is 'rather' new so hopefully in time when we have become more stable as a community we can really get these things fixed.

I'm sorry, but this argument is shortsighted. If you're such an experienced RPer, you would know that most servers do not permit revenge of any kind - it may be let off lightly in the event that someone happened to be mass RDMing or the like.

That's where things like the F1 system. Now despite its shameful infamy to be slow, but 99 times out of 100, you will receive a skilled administrator/moderator who can deal with your request on a professional scale. We do not need Bruce Willis style vigilantes: justice is always delivered, no matter how long it takes.

I do agree with you here. That's why when someone calls us for a 'random demote' - it's a matter of: find the culprit, validate a reason, deliver punishment, return the victim their job.

In all fairness: could you suggest a way that can make the system viable?

I do agree that this should be fine-tuned a bit more. I'd appreciate if you would post a suggestion in the appropriate forum to correspond with your complaint.

A bit of advice.

NEVER

...I repeat...

[size=360:2csbalzz]NEVER[/size]

...bring job votes into OOC. People always assume that you are begging for a job and will vote against you without cause, but either way: if you are being personally attacked, you should most definitely report the altercations on the forum (be sure to get a steamid.)

Either way: I do like this idea.
Join any DarkRP community, this is always the case. We have internationally based administrators, there is typically an admin or moderator on at all times. When there isn't: we rely on community members to gather evidence on those who infringe upon the rules, and report these.

That's the best chance you have, unless you happen to join another darkrp community with energy-drink junkies for admin who are available 24/7.

I do agree here, also. Evidently: with people returning and displaying no reform at all, when the rules are clearly presented upon joining, we need to be tougher. Permanent or lengthy bans should become abundant, there's enough population in the DarkRP community to fill those gaps with rule-abiding players; there's also always the appeal forum.

Was the moderator on duty? Some moderators are 'donator moderators' - and although they are often seen on the abusive spectrum, some may actually do something (but they aren't obliged to do so). If the moderator was nearby, he may have missed something, or had a ton of F1 requests on his hands.

That's where prioritization comes in: there is a queue, and things are dealt with in the order that they are reported. It would be simply unfair to offer on scene support to some, but not others.

And that's when we work against them to gain appropriate evidence, and they are eventually demoted: I do agree that the demotion system needs to be toughened, especially for donator mods, whom, rather surprisingly, actually receive softer punishment.

Once again. You can't generalize every admin as a culprit of rude or inappropriate conduct: and for the few who do so, there's the report forums.

You aren't going to be banned for expressing justified and the utmost valid opinions. I, and others, will appreciate the time spent to address these issues.

Great feedback!

Yes Arglebargle, I would have to say that I have grown quite fond of this community..
Like I said, you guys have a great thing going here..


Yes I know that, and I think the staff is handling it quite well, and there will always be a few bad apples in the bunch, I wasn't saying it because I want perfection..
Perfection is too boring and predictable

But like I wrote, it's a whole different story when no one is around, unfortunately there are to many players who can't just press F1, write a ticket and let it go..

And of course the staff can't be around 24/7, which is completely fair and understandable..

This is just an idea, I stumbled across a different demoting system, actually on the same server as the one who had the test for police force and so on, it was more of warning system rather then demoting..

Only admins had the power to demote players on the spot, and that would also ban them from that job for a random amount of time, however!

The players could call for a demote warning "You weren't able to call multiple votes on the same player, unless that player changed jobs or reconnected"
When a certain player the got 3 warnings, that player would be demoted and temporary ban them..

The other players did say, that it was quite rare that one player had more then 2 warnings, because by that time an admin would be present, to determined rather or not foul play was involved or not..

I'm not saying that this is right approach to handle such things when the staff isn't around, however it did seem to be quite balanced and fair..

Yes, I fully agree!
It's definitely not the right way to do it..
But sometimes you kinda have to lightly press a few buttons, to learn a bit more about the general mentally of the people in a new community..
The results aren't always pretty, hehe..

Again, you guys shouldn't have to be around 24/7 to keep a great game going..

I guess what I was trying to say is, that some of the RP servers actually found a way to disable certain things, like the world glow effect..
And as for the prob-blocking or FDA, I don't really think that there is to much to do about that, expect to wait for a staff member to deal with the players, who doesn't care about the rules..

Btw NoXeR is really brilliant at spotting abuse like that, even before it's reported
Nice work mate!

No, the moderator was not on duty..
However, he was in the same room and was actively playing when it happened..
"FYI I'm not saying, that it was hes job to react on the spot"

I do know, that the cop who got demoted reported it, but nothing seemed to happened about it..
Since I talked with the guy later on..

Anyway, this was not something that I was a part of or I mixed up in, so it's not my job to play Inspector Gadget

I was just very surprised of that kind of behavior, I mean where the hell is the RPing aspect in that? O_O

You misunderstood, I wasn't trying to generalize every admin or mod..

I was merely trying to say, that everyone is entitled to have and do have bad days, we all do, that's just how life is, and I know that there is a forum for that, but it wasn't that serious, it was just more like one of those situations, that could have been handled a bit more peacefully, that's all..

Not trying to point fingers or attack anyone..

I love to see someone else with a similar point of view. There is quite a bit of rule breaking on the server. Unfortunately, it is impossible to handle every single thing, especially if the staff also enjoys roleplaying. I see the issue a lot.

The main cause of this "Randomness" you speak of, seems to be one of three things:

1. The players didn't read the rules.
2. The players don't know how to, or understand roleplay and what it means: DarkRP tends to set the definition as sitting in a room full of illegal items and praying the cops don't find out, which is not the entire story.
3. The players are ignorant of the rules, either because they don't care or they think they can get away with it.

I personally find that the first reason is a grey zone. I handled it quite differently on 4Cubes (My old server/community) than they do on ZARP. If a player didin't read the rules on 4Cubes, that was his problem, and he suffered the punishment nonetheless. It worked quite effectively, but also resulted in some complaining. I would suggest friendly reminders, such as a message in chat that says "Remember to read the Rules," or posters around the map that display the rules, along with the later message.

The second is a tough problem. There is really no way to teach people to roleplay, its something gained by experience. Unfortunately, as I have said above, game content can effect peoples view of roleplay.

The cure is just a rearrangement of gameplay. Of course, doing so would take away the point of "Dark"RP, meaning. The only way to truly avoid creating problems is to just have a bunch of working roleplay gamemodes.

The last problem is the one I find annoying. If someone thinks they're too good for the rules that everyone else is held to, that someone has a problem with me. It is my opinion that Ignorance and the "I can get away with it" attitude shouldn't be allowed for a single second.

Archangel wrote:
Perhaps, we could do a Rule test before each player starts RPing, if they get 10/10 questions correct they can play and they would have to take this 1 time a week?

Morgan Of Freemans wrote:
Yeah. If you want to lose half the community.

Christopher wrote:
The idea is actually not half bad, I mean I can understand the concern, sure..

But if a test was issued before playing that was focused on the actual server rules, the staff would have a much stronger grasp on the players regarding violations, if the players then ace the test, they can't deny their actions or try to talk themselves out of a possible ban, if they are the sort of players, who constantly break or bend the rules to their liking..

Some regulars might stop playing, and new players might not want to play, because then they have to actively agree to the rules, instead of just pressing a button and "say" that they have read the rules..

But then again, sorry for the term; But do you guys really want arrogant pricks on your server, and loose the ones that actually want to be a part of the community?

It's a semi serious server, so we can't indulge full-fledged RP'ers, and tbh those can be kinda wacko anyways

Maybe it's not the right solution, maybe it won't help at all..
Or maybe it just might help a little to sort out some of those, who has that; "I don't give a shit, attitude"

If they know that there is a higher chance of getting a ban smacked in your face, they don't want to spend to much time making money or build up a solid foundation, just to wait for it..

There are one to many of those already, just saying..

Every 10-25 people I see, someone seems to stick around and is actually a good player

Chazil wrote:
The system is to eliminate rule breakers.

A test like that would be tedious, and unattractive.

Think about it, people that actually KNOW rules would not mind the test, Rule breakers would get on the server less causing less "Hustle and Bustle" and Trouble on our server.

I can't bother reading through all these post, since i'm not a forum type of guy.

Anyhow.

First of all welcome aboard and i hope you and your buddies get a great gaming experience.
We are always looking for new staff members and we are in lack of the moment. Regarding the voting system, the cop cp test is a nogo. Once the test have been made a few times rule breakers can instnatly go be cop when they are demoted. I do agree that very often people vote no to cp votes and i'm trying to make a way so vip+ dosent have to vote for goverment jobs. Anyhow, we have rough and light admins, a combination of these makes the perfect admin team. If any staff members are being to harsh feel free to PM me about it, i always keep all names anonymous.