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TOPIC: [CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not?

[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781874



So in the past few weeks there's been a lot of commotion around wether or not this is allowed.
I believe the question was asked by ezzezh to Tyler wether or not buttons/keypads are allowed to be used that way. As you can see in the picture the keypads stand in the doorways and the window, making it impossible to jump trough the window or walk directly trough the doorway ( You either have to jump/crouch or swerve left and right to get past the keypads )

Tyler stated that it was not their original intent as they should not be used to slow/impede player's movement. Most peoples stopped doing it but as time went by I guess that thread was forgotten as nothing was really made official. Heck probably only a few peoples actualy saw the thread.

Now Im not blaming anyone for doing that because I used to do it myself, pretty much everyone got around doing it as it is now one of the only way to defend properly if you do not have overwhelming numbers. But this needs to be clarified if it's allowed or not. Because right now even when asking LT members ( So far I asked duckrevoe and clarky ) both of them were uncertain if it was allowed or not which is understandable because the rules that state keypads/buttons should not be used to slow/impede movement is rather " vague ".

I believe the rule should state that both keypads and buttons ought to be either no-collided by default without the possibility of enabling collision OR it should be obligatory to have them attached to a solid ground/wall/texture to minimize the impact of a player's manoeuverability in a base.

Either that or simply remove the rule about slowing/impeding player's movement speed because right now it's only leading to confusion as to what is or isn't allowed.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781877

I completely agree with you on the fact that it needs to be clarified, but in the other hand; If there was an fading door standing there and it got destroyed with an T-Gun or something else, does it still count as a 'rulebreak' then?
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781881

spodermon wrote:
I completely agree with you on the fact that it needs to be clarified, but in the other hand; If there was an fading door standing there and it got destroyed with an T-Gun or something else, does it still count as a 'rulebreak' then?

Well that's my point. There shouldn't be an issue in the first place with this if the rule stated keypads/buttons must be placed on solid ground/wall/texture or be no-collided by default.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781882

Follow the template if you want them to implement it, seems like a good idea.

[b]Server Name:[/b]

[b]Suggestion Title:[/b]

[b]How would it benefit the server:[/b]

[b]Potential Issues/Exploits:[/b]

[b]Additional notes:[/b]
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781883

It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

EDIT: There's a huge difference in making the bases that have the big ass crates fall to block movement once you tgun it and purposely putting a keypad, which I believe if I remember you cannot destroy with any special weapon, in the walkway to purposely impede movement. That creates a completely unfair advantage and attempts to completely loophole the obstacles rule.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781888

SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781891

spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.
Isn't that the same with metal detectors?
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781892

spodermon wrote:
I completely agree with you on the fact that it needs to be clarified, but in the other hand; If there was an fading door standing there and it got destroyed with an T-Gun or something else, does it still count as a 'rulebreak' then?

..which is blatant loopholing? as long as there is a rule in place, which from what I hear and read tyler did make a rule about it.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781898

SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

EDIT: There's a huge difference in making the bases that have the big ass crates fall to block movement once you tgun it and purposely putting a keypad, which I believe if I remember you cannot destroy with any special weapon, in the walkway to purposely impede movement. That creates a completely unfair advantage and attempts to completely loophole the obstacles rule.

The problem isn't really the jump/crouching part. The problem is that the only " legit " way in is to run left and right trough some sort of " keypad maze ". How far can you use keypads on props before it's considered slowing/impeding player's movement? How can you tell an illegal base from a legal base?
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781910

spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.

I swear I remember a rule while I was staff that said all keypads/buttons need to be no collided but it may have been changed in the rule revision we did, if not then I'm going crazy.

Also, I misunderstood the initial build template of it, I get it now, people are making the zig-zag walk maze type builds but with an indestructible keypad to essentially have a permanent keypad walkway. In my opinion, I still believe it attempts to loophole the obstacles rule due to the fact they are attempting to use an unfair advantage of having an indestructible zig-zag path while every other prop in the game can be destroyed given the server's unique special weapons in raiding. I see it like the old bugged gate prop people liked to use for the hidden entrances that got blacklisted, it was bugged and this seems to be a bug regarding prop damage/health and not being able to be destroyed. I'm not big on coding so it very well may be impossible to have them destroyed that way but it seems similar enough to me that this shouldn't be allowed for the time being due to it abusing the factor that keypads cannot be destroyed using the prop health/damage system with the server's unique raiding weapons.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781916

SoraJS wrote:
spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.

I swear I remember a rule while I was staff that said all keypads/buttons need to be no collided but it may have been changed in the rule revision we did, if not then I'm going crazy.

Also, I misunderstood the initial build template of it, I get it now, people are making the zig-zag walk maze type builds but with an indestructible keypad to essentially have a permanent keypad walkway. In my opinion, I still believe it attempts to loophole the obstacles rule due to the fact they are attempting to use an unfair advantage of having an indestructible zig-zag path while every other prop in the game can be destroyed given the server's unique special weapons in raiding. I see it like the old bugged gate prop people liked to use for the hidden entrances that got blacklisted, it was bugged and this seems to be a bug regarding prop damage/health and not being able to be destroyed. I'm not big on coding so it very well may be impossible to have them destroyed that way but it seems similar enough to me that this shouldn't be allowed for the time being due to it abusing the factor that keypads cannot be destroyed using the prop health/damage with the server's unique raiding weapons.
Bringing it up next meeting to clarify it in the rules so it can avoid all confusion. No rule states that it isn't allowed but on the other hand I was told Tyler said it isn't allowed, not sure under what rule which disallows it however.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781918

Clarky wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.

I swear I remember a rule while I was staff that said all keypads/buttons need to be no collided but it may have been changed in the rule revision we did, if not then I'm going crazy.

Also, I misunderstood the initial build template of it, I get it now, people are making the zig-zag walk maze type builds but with an indestructible keypad to essentially have a permanent keypad walkway. In my opinion, I still believe it attempts to loophole the obstacles rule due to the fact they are attempting to use an unfair advantage of having an indestructible zig-zag path while every other prop in the game can be destroyed given the server's unique special weapons in raiding. I see it like the old bugged gate prop people liked to use for the hidden entrances that got blacklisted, it was bugged and this seems to be a bug regarding prop damage/health and not being able to be destroyed. I'm not big on coding so it very well may be impossible to have them destroyed that way but it seems similar enough to me that this shouldn't be allowed for the time being due to it abusing the factor that keypads cannot be destroyed using the prop health/damage with the server's unique raiding weapons.
Bringing it up next meeting to clarify it in the rules so it can avoid all confusion. No rule states that it isn't allowed but on the other hand I was told Tyler said it isn't allowed, not sure under what rule which disallows it however.
More than likely due to it being a bug like I pointed out, that's what got the gates blacklisted.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781923

loxeo wrote:
spodermon wrote:
I completely agree with you on the fact that it needs to be clarified, but in the other hand; If there was an fading door standing there and it got destroyed with an T-Gun or something else, does it still count as a 'rulebreak' then?

..which is blatant loopholing? as long as there is a rule in place, which from what I hear and read tyler did make a rule about it.

So making any sort of obstacles which requires you to walk around is considered loopholing, ok
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781929

SoraJS wrote:
Clarky wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.

I swear I remember a rule while I was staff that said all keypads/buttons need to be no collided but it may have been changed in the rule revision we did, if not then I'm going crazy.

Also, I misunderstood the initial build template of it, I get it now, people are making the zig-zag walk maze type builds but with an indestructible keypad to essentially have a permanent keypad walkway. In my opinion, I still believe it attempts to loophole the obstacles rule due to the fact they are attempting to use an unfair advantage of having an indestructible zig-zag path while every other prop in the game can be destroyed given the server's unique special weapons in raiding. I see it like the old bugged gate prop people liked to use for the hidden entrances that got blacklisted, it was bugged and this seems to be a bug regarding prop damage/health and not being able to be destroyed. I'm not big on coding so it very well may be impossible to have them destroyed that way but it seems similar enough to me that this shouldn't be allowed for the time being due to it abusing the factor that keypads cannot be destroyed using the prop health/damage with the server's unique raiding weapons.
Bringing it up next meeting to clarify it in the rules so it can avoid all confusion. No rule states that it isn't allowed but on the other hand I was told Tyler said it isn't allowed, not sure under what rule which disallows it however.
More than likely due to it being a bug like I pointed out, that's what got the gates blacklisted.
You have the ability to make a button collide or non-collide which is intended, nothing can stop that since it isn't a rule break however I'm sure a fix by an owner or rule change can fix the issues.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781930

Clarky wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
Clarky wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
spodermon wrote:
SoraJS wrote:
It's pretty simple actually 4.4 Obstacles - Player built obstacles that impede player movement are not allowed. This includes obstacles that slow the player, force the player to crouch or force the player to jump.

Something like this should be the easiest judgment call of any LT ever, if it makes you jump/crouch in any way it isn't allowed and you make the person change it or delete if they refuse, what has the server come to that LT don't even know this just blatantly bread obstacles rule. God damn, I need to make a come back.

It doesnt force them to jump, it forces them to walk around because the keypads etc are indestructable.

I swear I remember a rule while I was staff that said all keypads/buttons need to be no collided but it may have been changed in the rule revision we did, if not then I'm going crazy.

Also, I misunderstood the initial build template of it, I get it now, people are making the zig-zag walk maze type builds but with an indestructible keypad to essentially have a permanent keypad walkway. In my opinion, I still believe it attempts to loophole the obstacles rule due to the fact they are attempting to use an unfair advantage of having an indestructible zig-zag path while every other prop in the game can be destroyed given the server's unique special weapons in raiding. I see it like the old bugged gate prop people liked to use for the hidden entrances that got blacklisted, it was bugged and this seems to be a bug regarding prop damage/health and not being able to be destroyed. I'm not big on coding so it very well may be impossible to have them destroyed that way but it seems similar enough to me that this shouldn't be allowed for the time being due to it abusing the factor that keypads cannot be destroyed using the prop health/damage with the server's unique raiding weapons.
Bringing it up next meeting to clarify it in the rules so it can avoid all confusion. No rule states that it isn't allowed but on the other hand I was told Tyler said it isn't allowed, not sure under what rule which disallows it however.
More than likely due to it being a bug like I pointed out, that's what got the gates blacklisted.
You have the ability to make a button collide or non-collide which is intended, nothing can stop that since it isn't a rule break however I'm sure a fix by an owner or rule change can fix the issues.
The problem with it is people are not no-colliding them so they may keep an indestructible zig-zag path. Just need to go back to having it in the rules that all keypads and buttons should be no collided at all times or just fix the bug with them being indestructible to special weapons/prop damage.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781938

Not allowed. Just remove their Buttons/keypads and tell them its not allowed.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781968

There is a rule against it, people loophold and put keypads there on purpose to slow the raiders down, it's common sense really.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781973

4.2 Buttons & Keypads - Buttons and keypads must be clearly visible and should not be used as decorations but rather only be used for the activation of your contraptions.
If they're not connected then they're invalid, however I guess this will be brought up in the Lead Team meeting this Saturday to ensure that this simply won't be allowed in general.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #781974

Just make keypads destructible.
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[CM/Owners please] Is this allowed or not? 5 months 1 week ago #782010

its allowed for now
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