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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] Name - Yikes! STEAM-ID - STEAM_0:1:68575193 Staff Members Name - CeeZe_ Punishment Reason - RDM - Don't join gunfights Server - TTT Story/Situation - I was proven at the time of this round. The incident happened under the bridge with the hut close to the cave entrance. CeeZee was shooting a person named TheDooDaa #SubscribeToPewDiePie and he was shooting him back. I was present and spectated the fight for around 2-3 seconds, but didn't shoot, (Because THAT, CEEZEE, THAT WOULD BE JOINING THE GUN FIGHT) The other person in question, TheDooDaa #SubscribeToPewDiePie, in voice-chat said "CeeZee is a traitor, KOS CeeZee" at only which point I shot CeeZee because he was KOSed. A KOS was put on someone, and because i killed someone on a KOS who was CeeZee, that person decided that KOS is not reason enough to kill me and looked for an excuse to give me a warning. He didn't open a chat, he didn't even try to contact me, he didn't forgive and handled his own case. Extra Information - It's very immature for him to handle his own case like that during the time where 3 other staff members were active in the server. I'm happy to provide any further information if necessary and will co-operate as much as possible to have this issue resolved, Thank you in advance, -Yikes / Svanz / Comet EDIT: I forgot to mention, quite important : The person DURING THE GUNFIGHT ran away, and only after running away called a KOS. After which, I obviously gunned down CeeZee. In the report, CeeZee said: "why did you join a gunfight?" To which I replied, something along the lines of "Didn't join the gunfight, I waited until a KOS was called on you, sorry about that. Was going to hunt him down next."
ADDITIONS TO THE NEW POST
After the conclusion of my last post, I tried contacting Richard, mainly because of one point : The fact that CeeZee said a different story to which I stated in the 1st post. This is the screenshot from that chat.So from that chat and the conclusion of my last post, I realised a few main points from the other side of the argument. I will go over them and then provide counter arguments for my case.
Arguments against me
1. The main report for me was RDM - Joining a gunfight to which I got warned for. 2. Looking at the decision message from Richard, I can see a couple of things:
My Counterarguments
1. I RDMed because I joined a gunfight.
It wasn't random. I waited for an appropriate KOS to be called, which is why I shot CeeZee because he was KOSed (abbreviation for Kill-On-Sight). He was in my sight, with a kill on sight. Again, he was in my sight while he had a kill on sight status on his name. And I got warned for that. That's crazy to me. This goes without needing to say it, but I then after identifying that CeeZee was innocent, I was running to gun down the person that killed him and called a KOS on him. (and was also KOSed by CeeZee) but was killed shortly after by another innocent.
(2) 2.1. CeeZee was involved in the decision making of this case
2.2. I need to provide evidence
2.3. I told a different story than what happened
2.4. I joined a gunfight
2.5 Staff can handle their own cases
3. Failure from admins to read the post I made.
Conclusion
Please, for the admin handling this case and many others interested in it, read it fully to have a full idea of the situation and only then make your decision. I'm competent to accept the punishment that's appropriate to the actions commited by me, however now I'm punished for something I didn't do. Last things I want to add: Again - I'm happy to provide any further information if necessary and will co-operate as much as possible to have this issue resolved appropriately. Thank you. Also, this goes without saying, I would like this post not to be handled by Dr. Richard, and more importantly, CeeZee. If possible I'd like someone who is primarily a TTT member of staff. PS: CeeZee mentioned in the group chat that this matters only if I was to apply for staff. This isn't a good way of thinking. Staff, as I mentioned before, should have some sort of responsibility when making mistakes, and it shouldn't be left at "Whatever, doesn't matter". EDIT : To make it more simple - CeeZee had a KOS on him while I shot him. Out of sheer spite he warned me for it. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Yikes Svanz Comet.
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But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho?
It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by .uzi.
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.uzi wrote:
But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho? It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. Funny. This is exactly what my post is about. Staff not reading. |
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Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
.uzi wrote:
I read your last appeal so I know what this is already about and you haven't provided any evidence on both cases.But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho? It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. Funny. This is exactly what my post is about. Staff not reading. Appeal handling policy dictates that evidence is required to prove that you did infact not break a rule. How do you expect staff to make any informed decision that would involve removing/adjusting a punishment without any evidence being supplied? If it's word vs. word when handling an appeal, and unless it's blatantly obvious the punishment was unnecessary or abusive in any regard, there's no reason to adjust it. In this case, Richard has appropriately contacted CeeZee, the admin who served the punishment and got his side of the story after consulting your appeal and the associated narrative. Stories don't match, details are missing blah blah blah.. point is, you can't prove CeeZee is lying here since you have no proof so why should we take your word? Also I ain't staff on TTT anymore :^) |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by .uzi.
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.uzi wrote:
Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
.uzi wrote:
I read your last appeal so I know what this is already about and you haven't provided any evidence on both cases.But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho? It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. Funny. This is exactly what my post is about. Staff not reading. Appeal handling policy dictates that evidence is required to prove that you did infact not break a rule. How do you expect staff to make any informed decision that would involve removing/adjusting a punishment without any evidence being supplied? If it's word vs. word when handling an appeal, and unless it's blatantly obvious the punishment was unnecessary or abusive in any regard, there's no reason to adjust it. In this case, Richard has appropriately contacted CeeZee, the admin who served the punishment and got his side of the story after consulting your appeal and the associated narrative. Stories don't match, details are missing blah blah blah.. point is, you can't prove CeeZee is lying here since you have no proof so why should we take your word? You're wrong. As mentioned in my post that you clearly didn't read, this community runs on the idea of innocent until proven guilty. The one needing to provide proof, in this case, would be CeeZee as he's the claimant in this. Not me. I'd need to provide proof if I was making a ban appeal however. You as a global moderator should know about this, I'm making a punishment appeal of which isn't required to show proof, despite the fact that I did show proof for me not RDMing. Ban template has a proof section. Punishment appeal template doesn't. I'm actually shocked you, a global moderator, don't know this. Also what do you mean I don't have proof? If you said that admins word is taken already, a very bias thing but nonetheless, then at least stick to it and actually listen to what CeeZee said himself. He got KOSed. I killed him on a KOS. 2+2. I didn't RDM. Stories don't match, he says. Please, don't comment on posts you can't be fucked to read, for the 3rd time. I never said CeeZee was lying in any case, I said Richard was. Your comments are more than irrelevant. |
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Handling..
Right, so this will be handled as soon as we get time to speak about this whole thing. I'll speak to the appropriate people once I get time. An outcome will most likely be posted tonight or either tomorrow. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Kurze.
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Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] .uzi wrote:
Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
.uzi wrote:
I read your last appeal so I know what this is already about and you haven't provided any evidence on both cases.But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho? It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. Funny. This is exactly what my post is about. Staff not reading. Appeal handling policy dictates that evidence is required to prove that you did infact not break a rule. How do you expect staff to make any informed decision that would involve removing/adjusting a punishment without any evidence being supplied? If it's word vs. word when handling an appeal, and unless it's blatantly obvious the punishment was unnecessary or abusive in any regard, there's no reason to adjust it. In this case, Richard has appropriately contacted CeeZee, the admin who served the punishment and got his side of the story after consulting your appeal and the associated narrative. Stories don't match, details are missing blah blah blah.. point is, you can't prove CeeZee is lying here since you have no proof so why should we take your word? You're wrong. As mentioned in my post that you clearly didn't read, this community runs on the idea of innocent until proven guilty. The one needing to provide proof, in this case, would be CeeZee as he's the claimant in this. Not me. I'd need to provide proof if I was making a ban appeal however. You as a global moderator should know about this, I'm making a punishment appeal of which isn't required to show proof, despite the fact that I did show proof for me not RDMing. Ban template has a proof section. Punishment appeal template doesn't. I'm actually shocked you, a global moderator, don't know this. Also what do you mean I don't have proof? If you said that admins word is taken already, a very bias thing but nonetheless, then at least stick to it and actually listen to what CeeZee said himself. He got KOSed. I killed him on a KOS. 2+2. I didn't RDM. Stories don't match, he says. Please, don't comment on posts you can't be fucked to read, for the 3rd time. I never said CeeZee was lying in any case, I said Richard was. Your comments are more than irrelevant. I was about to write something long and constructive but after reading this and the Appeal I've realized how lost you are. I would suggest that you go trough the TTT Server rules and staff guides/policies. |
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The following user(s) said Thank You: CeeZee
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Kurzex wrote:
Handling.. Right, so this will be handled as soon as we get time to speak about this whole thing. I'll speak to the appropriate people once I get time. Thank you, I expect you to be straight to the point. Again, as mentioned in my post, and hopefully as a competent staff member, please read it thorougly. Dr. Richard wrote: Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] .uzi wrote:
Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
.uzi wrote:
I read your last appeal so I know what this is already about and you haven't provided any evidence on both cases.But you got any proof of you not joining a gunfight tho? It's your word against his and by default, the admin's side is taken. Funny. This is exactly what my post is about. Staff not reading. Appeal handling policy dictates that evidence is required to prove that you did infact not break a rule. How do you expect staff to make any informed decision that would involve removing/adjusting a punishment without any evidence being supplied? If it's word vs. word when handling an appeal, and unless it's blatantly obvious the punishment was unnecessary or abusive in any regard, there's no reason to adjust it. In this case, Richard has appropriately contacted CeeZee, the admin who served the punishment and got his side of the story after consulting your appeal and the associated narrative. Stories don't match, details are missing blah blah blah.. point is, you can't prove CeeZee is lying here since you have no proof so why should we take your word? You're wrong. As mentioned in my post that you clearly didn't read, this community runs on the idea of innocent until proven guilty. The one needing to provide proof, in this case, would be CeeZee as he's the claimant in this. Not me. I'd need to provide proof if I was making a ban appeal however. You as a global moderator should know about this, I'm making a punishment appeal of which isn't required to show proof, despite the fact that I did show proof for me not RDMing. Ban template has a proof section. Punishment appeal template doesn't. I'm actually shocked you, a global moderator, don't know this. Also what do you mean I don't have proof? If you said that admins word is taken already, a very bias thing but nonetheless, then at least stick to it and actually listen to what CeeZee said himself. He got KOSed. I killed him on a KOS. 2+2. I didn't RDM. Stories don't match, he says. Please, don't comment on posts you can't be fucked to read, for the 3rd time. I never said CeeZee was lying in any case, I said Richard was. Your comments are more than irrelevant. I was about to write something long and constructive but after reading this and the Appeal I've realized how lost you are. I would suggest that you go trough the TTT Server rules and staff guides/policies. That's the problem. You don't need to write anything long and constructive. There's nothing in this case that would need a comment to be "long and constructive". I've read rules time and time and time and time again when I was admin and know them fully and quote them constantly to players in the server who aren't aware of them. As both me and CeeZee said, he was KOSed. Kill-on-sight. he was in my sight. I killed him on sight while he had a kill-on-sight on him. whilst he was in my sight. I killed him. while he had a kill-on-sight status. and was in my sight. at the time of me killing him. he was in my sight. with a status of kill-on-sight. And I still got warned for it, and then denied on my appeal. According to this, any KOS called should not be issued by anyone and everyone in the server should do nothing. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Yikes Svanz Comet.
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Also, can this be locked at the moment so that no further drama continues?
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Kurzex wrote:
Also, can this be locked at the moment so that no further drama continues? I would disagree, I want as many people contributing to this as possible with all sorts of opinions as I want this to be closer to an open discussionKeyword discussion, I agree with the fact that drama should be kept to a minimum. But not discussion. |
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Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
[...] I'd need to provide proof if I was making a ban appeal however. You as a global moderator should know about this, I'm making a punishment appeal of which isn't required to show proof, despite the fact that I did show proof for me not RDMing. Ban template has a proof section. Punishment appeal template doesn't. I'm actually shocked you, a global moderator, don't know this. Implying that the template restricts what you can and cannot put into an appeal... there's an extra information field that you can put your evidence in. Don't worry, you won't get punished for putting it in there Yikes Svanz Comet wrote: Also what do you mean I don't have proof? I mean you don't have proof. You've not submitted any screenshots/videos that detail what actually happened. You've simply provided a narrative of what happened, which takes me onto my next point...Yikes Svanz Comet wrote: If you said that admins word is taken already, a very bias thing but nonetheless, then at least stick to it and actually listen to what CeeZee said himself. He got KOSed. I killed him on a KOS. 2+2. I didn't RDM. That's been the default outcome since I joined back in 2016, it's never changed? The assumption is that the staff member knows what they're doing however, if it's obviously wrong and is pointed out by the handling admin it can be addressed. Yes, CeeZee was KOSed, but so was the bloke he was shooting at. You killed CeeZee, who was KOSed, who was attempting to kill another KOSed player as he was killed. Since both parties were KOSed, it almost nullifies the whole point of him being KOSed since he was attempting to kill another KOSed player - that's my understanding anyway. Yikes Svanz Comet wrote: Stories don't match, he says. Please, don't comment on posts you can't be fucked to read, for the 3rd time. I never said CeeZee was lying in any case, I said Richard was. Your comments are more than irrelevant. Rude |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by .uzi.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: CeeZee, Mr. Richard
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Kurzex wrote:
Also, can this be locked at the moment so that no further drama continues? Not necessary at the moment but I can do in the future if need be. |
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Implying that the template restricts what you can and cannot put into an appeal... there's an extra information field that you can put your evidence in. Don't worry, you won't get punished for putting it in there That's what's confusing to me. I'm not saying CeeZee is wrong. What proof do you want me to add? What is required is already in the post.Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Again, I don't need proof. It's good to have. just not needed. But let's say I didn't provide a narrative. Go with what CeeZee said. In his own narrative, I'm still innocent.Also what do you mean I don't have proof? I mean you don't have proof. You've not submitted any screenshots/videos that detail what actually happened. You've simply provided a narrative of what happened, which takes me onto my next point...Yikes Svanz Comet wrote: If you said that admins word is taken already, a very bias thing but nonetheless, then at least stick to it and actually listen to what CeeZee said himself. He got KOSed. I killed him on a KOS. 2+2. I didn't RDM. That's been the default outcome since I joined back in 2016, it's never changed? The assumption is that the staff member knows what they're doing however, if it's obviously wrong and is pointed out by the handling admin it can be addressed. Clearly not in this case.Yes, CeeZee was KOSed, but so was the bloke he was shooting at. You killed CeeZee, who was KOSed, who was attempting to kill another KOSed player as he was killed. Since both parties were KOSed, it almost nullifies the whole point of him being KOSed since he was attempting to kill another KOSed player - that's my understanding anyway. Both of them Were KOSed. That doesn't nullify anything, it makes them both KOSed, which they were, which I said many times in my posts. And nowhere in the rules does it say it "nullifies it". The meta is calling a KOS on the person you're shooting, be you traitor or innocent. It gives you an advantage in either case. Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Stories don't match, he says. Please, don't comment on posts you can't be fucked to read, for the 3rd time. I never said CeeZee was lying in any case, I said Richard was. Your comments are more than irrelevant. Rude It's not. Read the post before commenting, simple as that. I don't mean to be rude. You just argue against me without knowing the situation. Blindly attacking. And because you don't even know the situation and (by definition, not out of spite) are completely ignorant and will willingly continue to be ignorant, your comments are entirely (again, by definition not out of spite) are irrelevant. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Mr. Richard. Reason: BB Code Error
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This man wrote a whole essay. just cause of that lol
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Tamaninja wrote:
This man wrote a whole essay. just cause of that lol Thank you! |
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Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Clearly not in this case. Both of them Were KOSed. That doesn't nullify anything, it makes them both KOSed, which they were, which I said many times in my posts. And nowhere in the rules does it say it "nullifies it". The meta is calling a KOS on the person you're shooting, be you traitor or innocent. It gives you an advantage in either case. I'm gonna glaze over the rest of your reply and instead focus on this.. I do understand where you're coming from and honestly it's easy to understand where all the confusion is coming from. Personally this is the critical part for me (taken from your first appeal): The other person in question, TheDooDaa #SubscribeToPewDiePie, in voice-chat said "CeeZee is a traitor, KOS CeeZee" at only which point I shot CeeZee because he was KOSed. CeeZee claims that he KOSed this fella first, which is *probably* why CeeZee was KOSed in return. I say probably cause nobody has any damn proof lol. But from the limited visibility of what actually happened by reading your appeal (including the screenshot of the Steam group chat) it seems like (feel free to correct the summary): 1. CeeZee tried killing TheDooDaa and placed a KOS on him in tandem 2. Gunfight takes places 3. TheDooDaa retaliated and placed a KOS on CeeZee - reason uncertain 4. TheDooDaa supposedly leaves the gunfight - duration unknown 5. You killed CeeZee with the intention of finding TheDooDaa afterwards From my previous experience as a former Head Admin on TTT, these kind of situations caused the most problems which is why I personally despise the 'joining gunfights' rule. I can't really say much more but it definitely looks like CeeZee and TheDooDaa were engaging in combat in some way, it's not easy to tell what you mean by 'leaving' the gun fight.. did TheDooDaa manage to completely run away or was it just an attempt before you intervened? Also ty for the minus karma, I must've rustled your jimmies |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by .uzi.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: CeeZee, Mr. Richard
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Hi, thought I'd clarify some things, especially to .Uzi
The traitor in game shotguns me, i rapidly punch my bind "X PERSON IS A TRAITOR!" 3-4 times while shooting back at him, as he runs away(while I'm still shooting at him) he VoIP's "KOS CeeZee" (at this point I'm 1 bullet away from killing him, he was red health, still in my line of sight) then Yikes kills me before I can finish the guy that randomly shotgunned me Pretty self explanatory joining a gunfight |
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.uzi wrote:
Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
Clearly not in this case. Both of them Were KOSed. That doesn't nullify anything, it makes them both KOSed, which they were, which I said many times in my posts. And nowhere in the rules does it say it "nullifies it". The meta is calling a KOS on the person you're shooting, be you traitor or innocent. It gives you an advantage in either case. I'm gonna glaze over the rest of your reply and instead focus on this.. I do understand where you're coming from and honestly it's easy to understand where all the confusion is coming from. Personally this is the critical part for me (taken from your first appeal): The other person in question, TheDooDaa #SubscribeToPewDiePie, in voice-chat said "CeeZee is a traitor, KOS CeeZee" at only which point I shot CeeZee because he was KOSed. CeeZee claims that he KOSed this fella first, which is *probably* why CeeZee was KOSed in return. I say probably cause nobody has any damn proof lol. But from the limited visibility of what actually happened by reading your appeal (including the screenshot of the Steam group chat) it seems like (feel free to correct the summary): 1. CeeZee tried killing TheDooDaa and placed a KOS on him in tandem 2. Gunfight takes places 3. TheDooDaa retaliated and placed a KOS on CeeZee - reason uncertain 4. TheDooDaa supposedly leaves the gunfight - duration unknown 5. You killed CeeZee with the intention of finding TheDooDaa afterwards From my previous experience as a former Head Admin on TTT, these kind of situations caused the most problems which is why I personally despise the 'joining gunfights' rule. I can't really say much more but it definitely looks like CeeZee and TheDooDaa were engaging in combat in some way, it's not easy to tell what you mean by 'leaving' the gun fight.. did TheDooDaa manage to completely run away or was it just an attempt before you intervened? Also ty for the minus karma, I must've rustled your jimmies 1.I don't think so, I think the other person started it, but I'm going off of sound memory. 2.I think KOSes were fired from both sides, hard to say but I'm 70% sure that CeeZee was first to call the KOS. 3.I believe The other person shot 1st, CeeZee called KOS and shot back, then the other person KOSed CeeZee mid fight. 4. Yes 5. Yes. Yes, these situations are bad, which as I said, I think caused the new meta of calling the KOS mid fight. It gives a slight advantage, But nowhere does it say that it negates the KOS that was placed secondly from a little while ago, there was a big incident (ironically, with me included) where a traitor called a KOS on an innocent (person A), another innocent (person killed the person A but was then killed by another person entirely, person C. Person C was warned for RDM despite killing someone who killed an innocent. Who at the time, followed a KOS. This caused havoc in the server at the time, and because that rule was completely out of control and presented obvious flaws, me and another admin at the time, The Lonely Dodo decided to show just how flawed it was. A T sat in the T room and called a KOS on every person on the server that was innocent, making everyone KOSing everyone viable without any precautions. After a meeting with both me and Lonely Dodo, the initial situation I believe was overturned. Long story short, yes, this is a gray area in terms of decision making. I can see the argument from CeeZee, sadly he can't see mine. In short, I more than strongly believe I shouldn't be warned, maybe at least a chat opened saying "Try not to do that again" or something along those lines. But there was nothing. He immediately took his own report and then warned me, then was in assistance of deciding my appeal. It's almost obvious he did it out of saltyness for me killing him. Which should never happen. A staff member, especially with his ranking, should always remain objective and put staffing above playing at all times. EDIT : Also for the minus karma, sorry i hurt your feelings in 6 hours I'll bring it right back up for you and give you a lollypop with a bandaid <33 Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ][ Click to hide ] I can't remember if it was you or Richard I -karma'd on. I think it was Richard. Have some thicker skin, that's 3 times you complained about your feelings, Christ |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Yikes Svanz Comet.
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CeeZee wrote:
Pretty self explanatory joining a gunfight That would be the case if there weren't KOS statuses placed on both of you. |
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Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Yikes Svanz Comet. Reason: bad formatting oopz
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Yikes Svanz Comet wrote:
It's almost obvious he did it out of saltyness for me killing him. Which should never happen. A staff member, especially with his ranking, should always remain objective and put staffing above playing at all times.
I'm sorry what? What a huge assumption to make.
Yikes Svanz Comet wrote: He immediately took his own report and then warned me, then was in assistance of deciding my appeal. How was I in assistance in deciding the fate of the appeal? Dr Richard contacted me on Steam to get on TS, to which I unmuted, told me side and then returned to talking to my girlfriend, I think you're the one that's a bit salted here man |
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