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TOPIC: A note to ALL TTT Administrators

A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893849

So lately there has been a lot of confusion about the ban command. When it should be used, what you need to take into account before banning a user and how long you should ban them for. To clear up that confusion I have decided to make this post.

First of all I would like to emphasise one main thing: there is no direct guide on when to ban someone for what specific length. There are no set numbers and there is no definite way of banning a user. If you hear anyone, and by that I do mean anyone say that you have to ban for a day or only a few days for a first ban then immediately ignore whatever they're saying, because what they are saying is based on nothing else but their own personal opinion.

When do I ban someone?
The ban command, like all forms of punishment, is based around one specific policy: The Staff Ethos. All staff members should consider this thing like a holy book - it is what we base all punishments on.

Although that is nice and all, there is one thing concerning the staff ethos that a lot of users within the community tend to forget: abusive players are not protected by it. This is clearly stated within the post:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Keep in mind that the staff ethos is a guideline and it is here to protect both users and admins, but not to protect blatantly abusive players from justice.
The moment when you ban a user, they are no longer protected by the staff ethos. Why? Because when you ban someone, you automatically say: "This is an abusive player that we do not need on the server." That is the only reason that you can have for banning someone: the moment when someone breaks so many rules within a certain amount of time that they no longer have the right to play on the server.

All users that you are about to ban are considered abusive players. Therefore, the staff ethos does not apply to them. And before you ask, no this does not mean that you can ban them for as long as you like. The staff ethos might no longer apply to them, but it still applies to you, the staff member.

But when exactly is a user considered "abusive"? Now that is tricky. The easiest example I can give you is when you come across a player that has a lot of punishments, and by "a lot" I mean roughly ten or more punishments within the last few weeks, within two weeks' time. However you can also come across users that have received five punishments within an hour. Although others disagree, you are fully within your right to ban them at that point. If a user has broken so many rules within an extremely short amount of time then they can by all means be considered "abusive players".

Basically, when a user is considered abusive is up to you. However the argument of "They do not wish to play properly on the server" does not apply. You cannot decide whether or not someone else wants to play on the server properly or not. When banning a user you have to have a reason for it. Therefore if someone asks you "Why did you ban X" you should be able to respond with a proper explanation of why you banned that user. If you are unable to do so and if you are not able to reinforce your arguments with proof (e.g. the rapsheet) then there is a very big chance that you shouldn't have bannned that user.

What do I have to take into account when banning a user?
I have already touched on this very shortly before. Obviously punishments are the main thing you need to take into account. However, when you ban a user, be sure to check whether or not there are any invalid punishments on their rapsheet. Mutes and gags without a reason, for example, or an aslay and a warning given at the same time (considering that only one rule was broken, it'd be extremely harsh to count them seperately). Freezes and ragdolls given by staff members aren't valid punishments either.

When exactly those punishments were given matters as well. Obviously you should primarily take recent punishments into account. These are all punishments that have been given within the past two weeks. However like I described before, the staff ethos no longer applies to users that you are about to ban. If a user has received 50 punishments for prop abuse in the past, only two of those are recent and they prop abuse for a third time, feel free to ban them. Although the other 47 punishments are not recent any longer, they have clearly not learned that they should not prop abuse, and therefore they can be considered an "abusive player".

The last thing to take into account when banning a user is their previous bans. You need to look at the following things:

  1. When their ban was given
  2. What the reason for the ban was
  3. How long they were banned for
When the user was banned plays a major role if you need to ban them again. For example, you're not going to take a ban from six months ago into account if you're banning the user right now. But a ban from a month ago, or even a few months ago, can still be taken into account.

The reason for the ban matters as well. For example, if a user was banned for the reason "Mass Racism" for a day a week ago, and they're saying a racist word again, then feel free to ban them for a few days, or even more. Or if a user was banned for the reason "Mass RDM and LTAP" only two weeks ago, feel free to ban them for even longer regardless of whether or not they leave the server.

How long the user was banned for previously is of major importance for the length of their new ban. For example, a one-day ban from last month is not really interesting to you. Clearly the user has been able to not get banned for a month, and as their previous ban was only a day, their new ban shouldn't be far off. But if a user was banned permanently six months ago and unbanned 4 months ago then feel free to put them back on a permanent ban if you believe the situation calls for it.

How long do I ban someone for?
How long you ban someone for is based around everything I have told you just now. Who they are, how they have behaved on the server, what their previous punishments are and whether or not they have any previous bans is extremely important when you decide the length of their ban.

Say a user is mass rulebreaking. They are mass RDMing, being disrespectful and prop abusing every round. They have received two warnings within the last hour and have five recent punishments in total. They were banned for five days two weeks ago (no longer recent) for Mass RDM and LTAP. They have one other ban for a day with the reason "Discrimination and Recent Punishments" that was handed out a little less than a month ago.

There is a myth amongst the TTT staff team that you can only ban a user for recent punishments if they have eleven or more punishments. This is false; there isn't a single policy within the community that states that. At this point, feel free to ban him. How long? That's up to you. Just make sure you keep in mind that they have been banned for five days not long ago and that they are generally being a nuiscanse right now. If you feel like they deserve it, then ban them for a week or even more. Or maybe you think five recent punishments isn't enough to warrant a week ban, in which case you can feel free to ban them for a few days or for five days again.

When you ban a user, make sure you look at the whole rapsheet, not just the recent punishments. Don't look too far back though - it would be extremely harsh to consider punishments from over a year ago when banning a user today.

If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask them on this thread or by messaging me on Steam.

Posted with permission of Aek, LonelyDodo and Bezzy
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893852

What about my permission? Add me in there! Someone sticky this it's very important!
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893865

Its a really good guide and I recommend everyone takes the time to read it, good work Raeker.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893885

This should be in staff discussion for all staff to see.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893923

Detailed guide, nice work man.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893940

Annie Montana wrote:
This should be in staff discussion for all staff to see.
Yea its more like a guide for all administrators.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893943

EMP wrote:
Annie Montana wrote:
This should be in staff discussion for all staff to see.
Yea its more like a guide for all administrators.

This was more tailored to our TTT staff, but I'm sure that the necessary changes could be made if you felt that this was worthy of a guide for all administrators regardless of server.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893948

oh look another raeker post nobody reads
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893955

Bezzy wrote:
EMP wrote:
Annie Montana wrote:
This should be in staff discussion for all staff to see.
Yea its more like a guide for all administrators.

This was more tailored to our TTT staff, but I'm sure that the necessary changes could be made if you felt that this was worthy of a guide for all administrators regardless of server.
The thing is that other servers like SSRP have never had this issue where they don't ban users. On TTT it has consistently been an issue where staff members don't know when to ban to the point where it has actually had a negative impact on the server.

It is true though that this can technically be useful for staff members of all servers. I'll see if I can edit this to make it more universally appropriate sometime this week.
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Last Edit: 2 weeks 2 days ago by Raeker.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #893959

I never had a problem with the ban thingy :side:
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #894017

Great guide.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #894048

I know for a fact that some people might indeed have trouble with the question whether someone should be banned and for how long he or she should be banned.

This thread will surely help newer admins out to be more comfortable with the ban command.

nice job dude.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 2 days ago #894055

Banning is good !

Unbanning is no good ...

You must ban, because is good. You no unban, or I cry.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894306

I really do appreciate the amount of time and effort you put in just for helping out other people, thank you! :)
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Last Edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by _Eddie_.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894429

Good to use across all servers :)
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894459

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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894470

Johnler wrote: I don't see how this is comparable. Like at all.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894480

Raeker wrote:
Johnler wrote: I don't see how this is comparable. Like at all.

What do you mean? That is literally all you said but much shorter and clearer.

Besides you can't expect staff to read a whole essay, make it short and sweet.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894490

Jim_Jam wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Johnler wrote: I don't see how this is comparable. Like at all.

What do you mean? That is literally all you said but much shorter and clearer.

Besides you can't expect staff to read a whole essay, make it short and sweet.
What Johnler states in his guide entirely contradicts what I say in this post, so you're completely wrong in saying his guide is what I said but shorter. Although I did assist Johnler when he updated his old ban pastebin into that post, it actually shares a lot of misinformation that will only confuse staff even more, not help them.

Also in this case the "short and sweet" version is the staff ethos, but a lot of people misinterpret its meaning and this post explains why that is.
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Last Edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by Raeker.
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A note to ALL TTT Administrators 2 weeks 1 day ago #894492

Raeker wrote:
Jim_Jam wrote:
Raeker wrote:
Johnler wrote: I don't see how this is comparable. Like at all.

What do you mean? That is literally all you said but much shorter and clearer.

Besides you can't expect staff to read a whole essay, make it short and sweet.
What Johnler states in his guide entirely contradicts what I say in this post, so you're completely wrong in saying his guide is what I said but shorter. Although I did assist Johnler when he updated his old ban pastebin into that post, it actually shares a lot of misinformation that will only confuse staff even more, not help them.

Also in this case the "short and sweet" version is the staff ethos, but a lot of people misinterpret its meaning and this post explains why that is.
Please excuse me for being a moron. I went to bed at fucking 4 AM and I honestly am being extremely stupid today. Johnler's post is not wrong and it is not sharing misinformation. It could emphasise a little better that this is purely Johnler's opinion and that the actual punishment is up to the staff member's discretion, however overall there is nothing wrong with that post and it is fairly relevant to what I have written here.

However Johnler's post gives proper examples and scenarios and says the proper action to be taken whilst my post goes deeper into the ins and outs of the ban command and more specifically under what circumstances it should be used. Although I respect Johnler for sharing that guide, it made it more seem like a "I already made this" thing even though these two guides have entirely different perspectives on the subject touching entirely different issues.

Like I stated before, the TTT staff team have had this issue for a very long time now where they practically refuse to ban users. I could point fingers and make accusations as to why that might be, but really there is no point. It is a problem that has to be solved. And as great as Johnler's guide is, it does not solve that problem. What his guide does is help new administrators by giving proper examples of when to use the ban command.

What my guide does is acknowledge and clarify the misconceptions that have been going around for years to solve an issue that allows mass rulebreakers to play on the server. They serve entirely different purposes, which is why I don't understand how you, Jim_Jam, say that his guide is the same as mine "but shorter and clearer so it is better", even though that is an extremely blunt and short-sighted way of putting it.
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