TOPIC: [CM Suggestion] Keeping Lead Team Apps OPEN

What is it?
This was actually part of my 2018 CM campaign. I originally wished to propose this change myself in the CM Meeting, but as I cannot be part of them I’ll have to see this into effect some other way. Chute, Tyler and Para are already aware of this idea, and it was originally EMP’s, however I’d still like to make the current CM team aware of what this change can bring and how I, personally, would like to see it taken into effect.

The general idea is this: rather than having to repost your Lead Team Application each and every week when you haven’t been accepted, you post a single Lead Team Application that stays open until some conditions have been met. The most common condition would be actually being accepted, however I have other conditions listed below.

I personally believe a new section is the best option here. Having the Lead Team applications separate from the regular ones keeps things organised, and it also makes it easier for forum staff to see what should and shouldn’t be locked. It also makes it easier to find the Lead Team application you’re looking for, and even helps more when you try to use the search option on the forums and try to find Lead Team applications specifically.

It could be a sub-section of Server Applications like how ‘ZARP Competitions’ is a sub-section to General Discussion.

Locked under the following conditions
- Being accepted
Y’know, actually being accepted and stuff would lock the application. Makes sense, really.

- Revoking the application
There are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to go for a Lead Team position anymore. Maybe they feel like they aren’t actually ready, or maybe they feel like they do not have the time anymore for this position. It might also be that some other circumstances have changed, either within the community, the server’s Lead Team or any personal issue that might have arisen over time.

- Resigning
Can’t go for Lead Team anymore if you’ve resigned, can you now?

Why this would be a good change
The reason why Lead Team applications have been introduced into the community in early 2017 is so that possible SA or HA candidates could show themselves to the current Lead Team. It’s a good way to show an interest in the position and it’s a good way to show your capabilities to the community by answering (and in the case of HA, making) questions regarding the position.

It’s also a fact that certain Lead Team candidates get criticised for reposting their Lead Team application every single week. People will claim that the candidate has not shown improvement, which might be a fair statement to make, however the candidate might still wish to receive feedback or they might believe themselves that they have in fact shown an improvement over time.

Lastly, improving applications would be a lot simpler. I personally only edit my applications when I feel that a new thing needs to be added, which is something I gain over time. Having to repost the application every single week does not urge me, personally at least, to improve the application; instead it feels like an unnecessary chore without any actual merit. Of course it’s not guaranteed that users will edit their applications and improve it over time, but I personally believe this to be a lot more likely than it currently is.

Possible issues (and solutions)
- New forum staff
With a new section new forum staff might be needed. I believe that this is not an actual issue, however. It’s a fact that people applying for Lead Team will not need to be helped as much as people applying for Moderator or Admin. They’ve been longer in the community and usually know how bbcode works, which Gametrackers they have to link and what their SteamID is.

It’s also a fact that any possible TOU breaches as well as any possible topic that might need to be moved can easily be sorted by a Global Moderator or higher, at the very least for the first month or so. The section can always be opened up later.

If possible a solution could also be that all current Server Applications staff automatically gain the Moderator rank in the Lead Team Applications section.

- Any issue listed by the comments
I’m not a genius. I make mistakes and I might have overlooked possible issues when making this post. Therefore I will paste any and all criticisms listed in the comments in here, as well as my own response to that comment as to how that possible issue can be solved or how idiotic their statement may or may not be.
Annie Montana wrote: Forgotten? If there is a seperate section made for this (and honestly, there should be) then there will only be a limited amount of Lead Team applications in total. Not just that it's the meeting host's responsibility for ensuring all applications are on the Powerpoint - they can always save the Lead Team apps from the previous week on the Powerpoint to use the week after.

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Jacknelli wrote: Sorry, I'm confused - isn't this an argument FOR this suggestion, not against it?
Jacknelli wrote: The thing is, though, that this doesn't happen. I've only seen users improve their applications once or twice when applying for months upon end, and some didn't even improve it at all. I believe the incentive of LT apps should be more focussed on showing an interest in the role, and improving on the feedback given to you, rather than applying as in becomming the role that exact week. This change would promote that.

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Aspect wrote: Allow me to go into detail as to how some of your opinions are based on inafctualities and baseless assumptions. No offense meant to you - simply defending my statement.
Aspect wrote: Is this immediately a bad thing? People change their opinions, but their original opinions are still out there. If you could please describe to me how having old opinions on an application outweighs the positives that I have listed then that would be great.
Aspect wrote: As stated in response to Annie, if a seperate section would be created for Lead Team applications then finding the Lead Team application you want wouldn't be tedious at all. There are only so many Lead Team applications, and the old ones when locked will automatically go to the later pages. I'm also sure it can easily be assumed that the staff member would bump their application occasionally, although whether they do or not would not make the difference that it wouldn't be difficult at all to find (if there is a seperate section; I can understand this criticism a little better if all applications share one and the same section).
Aspect wrote: That is exactly why I said in my post that the post can be locked if the applicant believes that they no longer desire the job. Besides, to get Lead Team you must have good communication with the current Lead Team. Therefore the possibility of the applicant becomming Lead Team will be discussed, especially if the applicant is close to getting it that particular week. It isn't at all hard to imagine that the applicant would share the fact that they do not desire the job anymore at this point, and that's also going to be the moment when the Lead Team member will tell them to get the post locked by changing their original application to reflect their current beliefs and desires.
Aspect wrote: Thank you for your opinion!

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spodermon wrote: I will tell you how wrong you are, because I am always right
spodermon wrote: And he can just as easily revoke his application. Check my response to Aspect's criticism as I won't repeat myself.
spodermon wrote: And how is that a negative? Creating a new application practically never happens, something I already stated before. And why is it a bad thing whether or not the thread would be full of bumps or unconstructive posts? Please do tell.
spodermon wrote: That's an issue even now. If this suggestion were to be accepted that would not change.
spodermon wrote: As well as the other positives that I have mentioned in my post, maybe read that.
spodermon wrote: Agreed, thank you for your feedback.

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Bread Lee Guy Less wrote: This is indeed a fair assumption to make and a very good point. However, Lead Team members hardly ever look at the applications and its feedback, and I am personally of the opinion that the positives outweigh the negatives. Though I can understand why you don't think so, and I fully respect that.

Bread Lee Guy Less wrote: Currently one of the major requirements for becoming Lead Team is having good communication between staff and Lead Team. Although in a few minor cases it is not needed as much (because they excel in other areas) it is actually something that Lead Team want to see from the applicants. Therefore it is safe to assume that there's always a good bond between the applicant and the current high ranked members and they would know if the applicant is still interested in the job or not.

Although I once again understand your concerns and if they turn out to be a real issue then I am all for reversing this change. However, like I said before, I believe that there are too many positives to not at least try this, as I truly think it will have a positive impact on the community.

For those template junkies:

Not a bad idea at all

TheXnator wrote:

1)

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ez pz

EDIT: too

great suggestion, no more spamming apps

Mine stayed open for bhop

Only negative is that what if it gets forgotten? It's a good idea but keep it in mind.

Annie Montana wrote: Forgotten? If there is a seperate section made for this (and honestly, there should be) then there will only be a limited amount of Lead Team applications in total. Not just that it's the meeting host's responsibility for ensuring all applications are on the Powerpoint - they can always save the Lead Team apps from the previous week on the Powerpoint to use the week after.

Best idea ever would make lead team role applications easier for the owners and cm team to spot in order for them to be discussed effectively

Raeker wrote:
Fair enough

Will I be section moderator as I never got my Community Votes rank?

Sally wrote:
No

Sally wrote: Section Moderator in CM Section > Global Moderator

Seems like a good idea.

I feel this is a good idea in theory but there may be a few problems with it.

Firstly I believe that people who repost every single week are just worsening their chances every time because it shows they are impatient and are not improving upon anything rather just spamming their post every week in hopes of being accepted. Players who make an application and get denied and then take the time to improve upon things before applying again are showing that they are patient and willing to take criticisms and improve upon them.

Secondly I believe that having to repost your application is not a "chore" if you are truly looking to become a lead team member. In applying for this position you should show that you are willing to put in a great amount of effort into something like an application. Such as adding in details on what you have done to improve over being denied last time. Wheras if you only had to post it once and just leave it up there until hopefully you one day get accepted players would be much less inclined to improve their applications. I personally believe that in having to repost your application it is an opportunity to change some things up and explain how you have improved since your last application.


Now I honestly don't think this is a bad suggestion and I'm sure I coud make many good points on why it should be accepted as well. I just figured the most helpful way to make a suggestion better is through constructive criticism.

So I am neutral for now.

Cheers!

Jacknelli wrote: Sorry, I'm confused - isn't this an argument FOR this suggestion, not against it?

The thing is, though, that this doesn't happen. I've only seen users improve their applications once or twice when applying for months upon end, and some didn't even improve it at all. I believe the incentive of LT apps should be more focussed on showing an interest in the role, and improving on the feedback given to you, rather than applying as in becomming the role that exact week. This change would promote that.

@Raeker

Sorry I didn't make much sense. I guess what I meant to say about the first thing is that in keeping it so you have to reapply would better show who can take criticism and have patience and improve upon it and who is impatient and just spams their app every week. Which would give the lead team a better perspective when considering people to join the lead team.


As far as the second thing I do see your point in that not many people add to their app they just copy paste their old one. The goal obviously is that they add in on things they have improved on but like you said it doesnt happen often.

And as far as the last point I do actually like that. The application in a sorts "announces your candidacy" for the position and it's up to you to seek things to improve on and take your criticisms and turn them around. Rather than applying and just focusing really hard that exact week on trying to get the position.

So yeah quite honestly I'm starting to like the suggestion more than dislike it. Like I said just felt like looking at some possible downsides or counterarguments to it to improve the suggestion.

Jacknelli wrote: Thanks man, appreciate it

Anyone else that has thoughts/opinions on this?

I really dislike this idea.

First of all if only 1 post is made then it will be filled with thousands of comments of old opinions and reasons to Accept/Deny that specific member. Second of all it will honestly be really boring and easy to forget about a specific member applying for a lead team role, as it will be archived and can be extremely tedious to revisit the same post over and over again. Third of all if the appliciant made his appeal and it was accepted maybe 3 months after him making the appeal he might not even be wanting to take on the job anymore. If people make their applications every week it's more proven that they are more motivated to become lead team or whatever they're applying for.