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TOPIC: [IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this

[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679804

I feel as if a lot of staff right now follow the train of thought that you can KOS on DNA. However, this is false:

TheXnator wrote:
Rule 2.4 does not state any kind of exception for a detective. If any user kills anyone else and IDs the body, they must be questioned as to why they did it, or killing them would be RDM. This includes cases of getting DNA.

So, if someone uses the excuse in a report that they got DNA, question them about it.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679810

In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679812

CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679816

That is right!
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679842

I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
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Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by TheXnator.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679848

sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679855

CrankyBot wrote:
sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .
What do you mean "you see flaws in that"? It's a rule, something you're supposed to be familiar with (especially if you go for SA)
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679859

Raeker wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .
What do you mean "you see flaws in that"? It's a rule, something you're supposed to be familiar with (especially if you go for SA)

What I meant was interrogating the UIQ (user in question).

If the detective doesn't have a mic and he's typing to the UIQ - if they are a traitor then the traitor can see that the detective doesn't have a mic and then guns him down. Or if the UIQ is innocent and the interrogation is in progress a traitor can be doing something (e.g. killing lots others) or just straight up killing both of them by surprise.

Not that the flaw I'm implying can be seen as a major issue, but for those without a mic can find interrogation via text can be... problematic
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Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by CrankyBot.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679860

CrankyBot wrote:
sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .

What Raeker said, and also, what flaws are there? Detectives are just as capable of RDMing someone, DNA just proves that player A killed player B, and absolutely nothing more. People should not be able to use it as an excuse to kill people, as it proves nothing about the situation.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679862

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

TheXnator wrote:
What Raeker said, and also, what flaws are there? Detectives are just as capable of RDMing someone, DNA just proves that player A killed player B, and absolutely nothing more. People should not be able to use it as an excuse to kill people, as it proves nothing about the situation.

Read what I just said
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Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by CrankyBot.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679863

CrankyBot wrote:
Raeker wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .
What do you mean "you see flaws in that"? It's a rule, something you're supposed to be familiar with (especially if you go for SA)

What I meant was interrogating the UIQ (user in question).

If the detective doesn't have a mic and he's typing to the UIQ - if they are a traitor then the traitor can see that the detective doesn't have a mic and then guns him down. Or if the UIQ is innocent and the interrogation is in progress a traitor can be doing something (e.g. killing lots others) or just straight up killing both of them by surprise.

Not that the flaw I'm implying can be seen as a major issue, but for those without a mic can find interrogation via text can be... problematic
Basically you're saying that users without a mic have a disadvantage over users with a mic, but that has always been the case and will forever be the case. It's a rule, and a very important rule at that.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679865

CrankyBot wrote:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

TheXnator wrote:
What Raeker said, and also, what flaws are there? Detectives are just as capable of RDMing someone, DNA just proves that player A killed player B, and absolutely nothing more. People should not be able to use it as an excuse to kill people, as it proves nothing about the situation.

Read what I just said

Read what I said. What you said still doesn't justify it, as you should not be allowed to kill someone because they killed in self defence.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679868

Raeker wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
Raeker wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
sorle wrote:
CrankyBot wrote:
In the damagelogs it will tell us if someone has retrieved DNA from a body (e.g. Detective has retrieved the DNA of Traitor from Innocent's Body)
Yep, I know that, but it can't simply be used as a reason to KOS.

Oh I see what you meant

Yes I do agree but I see flaws in that .
What do you mean "you see flaws in that"? It's a rule, something you're supposed to be familiar with (especially if you go for SA)

What I meant was interrogating the UIQ (user in question).

If the detective doesn't have a mic and he's typing to the UIQ - if they are a traitor then the traitor can see that the detective doesn't have a mic and then guns him down. Or if the UIQ is innocent and the interrogation is in progress a traitor can be doing something (e.g. killing lots others) or just straight up killing both of them by surprise.

Not that the flaw I'm implying can be seen as a major issue, but for those without a mic can find interrogation via text can be... problematic
Basically you're saying that users without a mic have a disadvantage over users with a mic, but that has always been the case and will forever be the case. It's a rule, and a very important rule at that.

I'm not disagreeing with the rule or degrading the rule - I agree staff must take into consideration that D's (or innocents with DNA scanners in some cases) should be asking questions as to why they killed someone.
Yes the problem for no-mic users is always an issue.
I just seeing one negative side to this, again this is no way of me saying that this rule is stupid or shouldn't be followed.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679876

TheXnator wrote:
I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
This is false and isn't stated in the rules. Killing someone due to DNA you've obtained is fine, there is no rule that states that it is not. If you'd read the rules that dictate this such as valid and invalid KOS reasons and the RDM rule you'd know that these rules are applicable to some situations but not all as in the end it all falls back on if the player acted within reason and can give such reason as to why they killed someone.

A large part of the gamemode is weighing the chances and credibility of other terrorists and the rules aren't here to remove that.

Edit: As for rule 2.4 Player Versus Player it should be changed to allow for an exception if one of the players is a detective or proven innocent. You guys have also horribly misused the rule here as it's only applicable when you encounter players in active combat, it's to stop situations where someone shooting a traitor gets killed by another innocent that makes the wrong call.
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Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Legendary Soldier.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679879

Tyler Durden wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
This is false and isn't stated in the rules. Killing someone due to DNA you've obtained is fine, there is no rule that states that it is not. If you'd read the rules that dictate this such as valid and invalid KOS reasons and the RDM rule you'd know that these rules are applicable to some situations but not all as in the end it all falls back on if the player acted within reason and can give such reason as to why they killed someone.

A large part of the gamemode is weighing the chances and credibility of other terrorists and the rules aren't here to remove that.

Edit: As for rule 2.4 Player Versus Player it should be changed to allow for an exception if one of the players is a detective or proven innocent.

When you say the exception, do you mean that if a D/Proven Innocent starts shooting someone then others are allowed to join in on the PvP combo
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679882

Tyler Durden wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
This is false and isn't stated in the rules. Killing someone due to DNA you've obtained is fine, there is no rule that states that it is not. If you'd read the rules that dictate this such as valid and invalid KOS reasons and the RDM rule you'd know that these rules are applicable to some situations but not all as in the end it all falls back on if the player acted within reason and can give such reason as to why they killed someone.

A large part of the gamemode is weighing the chances and credibility of other terrorists and the rules aren't here to remove that.

Edit: As for rule 2.4 Player Versus Player it should be changed to allow for an exception if one of the players is a detective or proven innocent. You guys have also horribly misused the rule here as it's only applicable when you encounter players in active combat, it's to stop situations where someone shooting a traitor gets killed by another innocent that makes the wrong call.
Well, people could have completely valid and non-traitorous reasons to kill someone but just die because the trigger-happy Detective got DNA. This really needs to be changed imo.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679885

CrankyBot wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
This is false and isn't stated in the rules. Killing someone due to DNA you've obtained is fine, there is no rule that states that it is not. If you'd read the rules that dictate this such as valid and invalid KOS reasons and the RDM rule you'd know that these rules are applicable to some situations but not all as in the end it all falls back on if the player acted within reason and can give such reason as to why they killed someone.

A large part of the gamemode is weighing the chances and credibility of other terrorists and the rules aren't here to remove that.

Edit: As for rule 2.4 Player Versus Player it should be changed to allow for an exception if one of the players is a detective or proven innocent.

When you say the exception, do you mean that if a D/Proven Innocent starts shooting someone then others are allowed to join in on the PvP combo
Yes, it's not there currently but it would make sense to add it.

sorle wrote:
Well, people could have completely valid and non-traitorous reasons to kill someone but just die because the trigger-happy Detective got DNA. This really needs to be changed imo.
If the detective got DNA and killed someone for it that was innocent he suffers a karma penalty for doing so, the rules shouldn't be changed to slow down the gameplay. If you die, you die. Wait your turn and play the next round instead.
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Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Legendary Soldier.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679889

Tyler Durden wrote:
TheXnator wrote:
I've had a go at many staff members in the past as a result of this, even back when I was an admin - DNA IS NOT PROOF. If the body is unidentified, sure, kill them, but otherwise you must ask them why they killed them and can only KOS if they give no reason or an invalid reason.
Hopefully TTT staff look at this thread and realise this.
This is false and isn't stated in the rules. Killing someone due to DNA you've obtained is fine, there is no rule that states that it is not. If you'd read the rules that dictate this such as valid and invalid KOS reasons and the RDM rule you'd know that these rules are applicable to some situations but not all as in the end it all falls back on if the player acted within reason and can give such reason as to why they killed someone.

A large part of the gamemode is weighing the chances and credibility of other terrorists and the rules aren't here to remove that.

Edit: As for rule 2.4 Player Versus Player it should be changed to allow for an exception if one of the players is a detective or proven innocent. You guys have also horribly misused the rule here as it's only applicable when you encounter players in active combat, it's to stop situations where someone shooting a traitor gets killed by another innocent that makes the wrong call.
2.5 Valid KOS reasons
There are many KOS reasons and they all work in different situations and scenarios, here are a few; [You should question the player as to why they are doing these acts before you declare the KOS]

If you kill someone else for a valid reason - for example, they started shooting you - and you're both innocent and you identify the body, then you had a valid reason for killing that user. A detective finds DNA on the body that leads him to you. If he'd straight up kill you for the DNA or declare a KOS, wouldn't that be considered RDM? As he didn't ask beforehand?
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679893

Tyler Durden wrote:
sorle wrote:
Well, people could have completely valid and non-traitorous reasons to kill someone but just die because the trigger-happy Detective got DNA. This really needs to be changed imo.
If the detective got DNA and killed someone for it that was innocent he suffers a karma penalty for doing so, the rules shouldn't be changed to slow down the gameplay. If you die, you die. Wait your turn and play the next round instead.
This makes sense, nevermind my last post.
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[IMPORTANT] TTT Staff read this 6 years 7 months ago #679895

Tyler Durden wrote:
sorle wrote:
Well, people could have completely valid and non-traitorous reasons to kill someone but just die because the trigger-happy Detective got DNA. This really needs to be changed imo.
If the detective got DNA and killed someone for it that was innocent he suffers a karma penalty for doing so, the rules shouldn't be changed to slow down the gameplay. If you die, you die. Wait your turn and play the next round instead.

But is the game not meant to be strategy-based, rather than all-out warfare? We're taking away a lot of the strategy from the game by allowing this.
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