TOPIC: Rule 2.1

Rule 2.1 3 years 2 months ago #1313513

Gin wrote:

TheRealNepgear wrote:

Gin wrote:

Darling wrote:

"Um yeah I just killed him these three people within two minutes but they all just shot at me for no reason!"
Actually a shame of a rule.
The amount of times I go into tester and slaughter 10 people under the pretense that "Someone shot at me and they all started fighting." is really disappointing.

Talk about brainless is when an innocent can straight up murder anyone with the reason "oh you killed an innocent no matter why" and not consider anything. Funny seeing maddox talking smack here though, I remember you as the one moderator that loophole rdmed every time you got the chance. You could consider that "taking the rules too seriously" as well.

How shitty or good of a rule 2.1 is really depends on how you enforce it. I personally never punish anyone if they call out the traitors bullshit lies, it is ridiculous that you would be forced to believe anything if just given a valid reason, even if it were not true.

And now since we are talking about anecdotal experiences(for some reason) like nepgear here, I can say I witnessed these chain reactions often, some players would take advantage of the rule to perhaps kill a person they disliked. Back when I started playing on the server a couple of years ago and learned about this rule, I would too, take advantage of it. I would kill people for retaliating on rdming players.

As the rule currently stands you're supposed to believe any valid excuse a killer gives, unless you are 100% certain that the given situation did not happen, it really should be changed so you could take a risk and not believe a traitors words and not get punished for doing so.
I already enforce this rule in this way since I believe it improves the game mode and player experience, might not be what you're supposed to do but this is what I strongly believe.

P.S. Using the excuse "oh he killed an innocent" was just as strong as using "oh he tried to kill me" nowadays with the current 2.1

For the first thing you said I rather have it this way than literally being forced to believe a bullshit reason as "oh that guy shot at someone a while ago and I wasnt close enough to kill him", just because of a dumb rule that forces me to.

Second what you are literally describing there is how the rule was back then and not how it is right now. Cause right now you first of all have and then wait some time to respond to you and if they give you a semi-good answer, as kindly provided by darling for example, you are just not allowed to kill them as this counts as RDM according to this rule. I know it wasnt perfect with the way it was before, you always had the chance to just be killed randomly because you were just acting in self defense, but realistically speaking you cant have both. Its either one or the other. We dont live in a perfect world were everyone agrees to be nice to each other, thats just not how things work. There are always gonna be people that want to be dicks and there are always gonna be people that are gonna be nice, but taking all of that in consideration I rather take the old rule back were I was running in danger of being killed for doing self defense, than not being able to kill somebody that is telling me utter bullshit just because you didnt happen to randomly follow this guy the entire fucking round.

Third I dont know where the fuck you get the vibe from that I am talking about anecdotal experiences, cause most other people that were playing back then actually do agree with me (funny init?). I never said that random kill chains never happened, they did. Its just that the majority of the kill chains I have witnessed were just friends trolling each other. You cant prevent it with the old rule, yes, but it I still take that over this bs ngl.

Fourth, I already said something to this in one of the other things, you cant make this rule perfect. The way you are enforcing it is how the old rule used to be (at least to some sorts). You either have this rule how it is right now, where you have to believe what is being told to you no matter how bullshit it seems for you or you take those chain killings and being killed while just defending yourself. I wish you could just have a middle ground, but sadly some humans just rather want to be the dick and kill you for defending yourself and having this rule in place how it is right now will just never let you have your own will to just freely decide to not believe anyone and kill them without having to be 100% certain that what they told you is bullshit.

P.S. At least back then I was allowed to kill someone if I didnt believe this reason, unlike right now

You are very much correct in this whole post. Both versions have their ups and downs, but all this really comes down to preference. I'd rather have this version over the mass killings. What they really should do is add a bit where it is optional to believe the culprit or not and punish according to what happened. If the culprit was indeed lying and you deduced it, you won't get punished. If the culprit had a valid reason and gets killed it's RDM. The argument that the people who side with this rule change often give is "it's TTT, deception is a big part of it" but you really can't have deception without deduction, it's just bullshit without the other.

+ I gotta say I hardly saw those chain killings other than from people that knew each other and just wanted to have fun with each other, but hey I guess having fun on zarp was always not well received.

Here you are very clearly talking about anecdotal experiences.

I was rather going on about the part of them being anecdotal experiences, because most of the people (that I know at least, that also played back then) rarely had a problem with it.

It might really just come down to preference, but if I gotta have to choose to either get rid of the rule or keep the rule, I would rather take the get rid of this rule option. Just simply, because most other server function this way and because its the way I used to learn how you play gmod. I have yet to go on a different TTT Server and discover this rule (there are probably servers out there, but I just simply haven't seen them) and I have been on rather a lot of servers.

It is the way how I got introduced to TTT. That you always had the option of asking why that guy just killed that guy or you just take the gamble of killing him and might end up killed yourself. I can see how some people might prefer this way rather than having the old rule back, but I know that there are an equal amount that liked how we handled it before it got changed and some literally stopped playing TTT altogether just because of this rule. At least with the old rule I didn't see that many people just quit the server all together, sure they got angry about being killed for doing self defense, but most of the time they complain about it in death chat and then continue playing normally in the next round (I know that there were probably people that quit the server because of this and I am not gonna try to deny that).

TheRealNepgear
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Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by TheRealNepgear.

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Rule 2.1 3 years 2 months ago #1313519

Nogtog wrote:

I mean this rule is equally awful as it is incredibly valuable and there really isn't a way to change it without ruining the balance (at least in my opinion).

For one, 2.1 makes being traitor a looooot easier. My average T round consists of me shooting people in the head and saying they tried to shoot me so i can't be kosed for it. This is obviously not a good thing and it just adds to the whole "i know they're the traitor 100% but i don't have solid proof so it would be rdm" thing which plagues anyone who plays TTT. Yes, you can kill someone if they give a shit reason but when its as easy as going "oh yeah that guy tried to shoot me but missed" it's pretty impossible to find a discrepancy with what they're saying. Even if they give a flimsy excuse, its still very possible they'll report you for rdm and try to get you warned, and are you really going to take that risk?

But at the same time, it's a sort of necessary evil. I mean i've played TTT for quite a bit personally and anyone who has played it for at least 5 minutes can tell you how much shit you go through with people rdming you because "he killed an innocent." As a staff member for around 4 months now, i've seen countless reports of people just going up to someone and shooting them in the head because they killed a mass rdmer and weren't given time to explain. If you take out rule 2.1 then what happens? If Little Timmy gets his right kneecap blown off by xxx_Kyle_xxx (completely random name) and is killed for getting revenge, what would you do? If you take out 2.1 then he's dead meat because he killed an innocent even though he didn't do anything to deserve a kos.

So yes, this rule is complete and utter bullshit, but it's also one of the most important rules in the game. If you removed it, i can guarantee things would be worse off.

I really dont think that the server is gonna fall into utter chaos and completely get destroyed once this rule gets removed. It worked before, so I doubt that it will ruin everything. It probably might take some time to introduce it again and it might be weird for the first few days to week, but after that it will probably just go back to normal same with what happened back then when this rule got introduced.

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Rule 2.1 3 years 2 months ago #1313520

rule's fine	TheXnator Offline Former Owner "Save the tears for when we win!" Posts: 8122 Thanks received: 4300 Karma: -2023
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