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TOPIC: KOSing health stations

KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852546

Recently there have been a few players including some staff that after announcing that it is kosable to use their health station in text chat have then been using the DNA scanner on the health station in order to hunt down players that have used it. After talking to some staff about it and deciding that this is complete bs i checked if there was any mention of using a DNA scanner for this in the rules, which there was not. After deciding that this was becoming an issue that needed to be addressed i decided to make this topic.

First about the use of the DNA scanner in this situation. After reading the rules multiple times it is clear that this should not be allowed. Rule 2.2b Detective Warnings/KOS Reasons states that using a health station repeatedly without permission is kosable, the key point being repeatedly. If you are using a DNA scanner to hunt down people who have used it you will not know to difference between someone who healed to full and someone who pressed e near it by mistake. This has led to too many times where detectives are basically mass RDMing and needs to stop.

While reading the rules i found a bigger issue regarding the way a lot of the staff view KOSing health stations. Rule 2.2b is the follow up of rule 2.2 In-game warnings to players, as this is the case the simple act of announcing your health station is KOS may not be enough. Rule 2.2 states that a minimum of 2 warns are required, so a simple HS=KOS is not enough, i would argue that this means that in the event of someone using a hs that has been kosed the detective must give them a warning to stop using it before they may kill them(as some people may just say HS=KOS twice and think that is enough). If we take this further 2 warns to stop could needed before killing the player, as rule 2.2 also says "When issuing a warning to a player in-game", player as in singular so simply saying HS=KOS could not be seen as a valid warn as it targets a group.

Just thought i would bring that last bit up because i know that for majority of staff if someone says that their hs is KOS then that is enough, but after reading the rules multiple times it does not look like it is.

Edit:I think this rule is being handled kind of wrong in game. There is no rule stating that a user must announce that their hs is KOS, as a result i feel a user should simply have to warn someone to stop using it as and when they do, following rule 2.2 of course.
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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Miia.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852551

Miia wrote:
Recently there have been a few players including some staff that after announcing that it is kosable to use their health station in text chat have then been using the DNA scanner on the health station in order to hunt down players that have used it. After talking to some staff about it and deciding that this is complete bs i checked if there was any mention of using a DNA scanner for this in the rules, which there was not. After deciding that this was becoming an issue that needed to be addressed i decided to make this topic.

First about the use of the DNA scanner in this situation. After reading the rules multiple times it is clear that this should not be allowed. Rule 2.2b Detective Warnings/KOS Reasons states that using a health station repeatedly without permission is kosable, the key point being repeatedly. If you are using a DNA scanner to hunt down people who have used it you will not know to difference between someone who healed to full and someone who pressed e near it by mistake. This has led to too many times where detectives are basically mass RDMing and needs to stop.

To this I believe that it you should see the person using the Health Station and not just using the DNA scanner. The player who took health might have clicked by mistake as you mentioned but he also might not have known that it was that detectives heath station.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852553

That is indeed an issue that should be adressed, thank you.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852574

Raeker wrote:
That is indeed an issue that should be addressed, thank you.

I concur, jolly good work Miia.


But really the issue of kos on hs is something that is in need of discussion with staff to decide what can and can't validate into a kos of HS.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852591

Raeker wrote:
That is indeed an issue that should be adressed, thank you.
Well Raeker now you gotta apply for super admin to bring it up in the next lead team meeting?
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852610

Lil bump so people notice my edit
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852625

A prime example of this being an issue is the fact that there was a detective yesterday who did this very exact thing and the results were about nine players were killed by him, not just using the health station, but from DNA from the station itself, and of course, only one of which was a T, the other eight players were all innocents, and his karma looked like complete garbage with the end result of it being about 235. Needless to say he didn't at all care, but since I've been playing, this type of thing has been acceptable, while I understand it somewhat fallen underneath most peoples radar, this definitely needs to be clarified because not only would I say it's being improperly used on the server, and it's definitely being abused by some detectives using it as some type of loophole mechanic.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852626

This happend to me, The staff members did nothing when the player killed me even though I reported it, It is good that you have made this topic as it should allow staff members become more aware of this rule.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852627

Bezzy wrote:
A prime example of this being an issue is the fact that there was a detective yesterday who did this very exact thing and the results were about nine players were killed by him, not just using the health station, but from DNA from the station itself, and of course, only one of which was a T, the other eight players were all innocents, and his karma looked like complete garbage with the end result of it being about 235. Needless to say he didn't at all care, but since I've been playing, this type of thing has been acceptable, while I understand it somewhat fallen underneath most peoples radar, this definitely needs to be clarified because not only would I say it's being improperly used on the server, and it's definitely being abused by some detectives using it as some type of loophole mechanic.

Oh gee no need to name me ;_; and only like 4 of those were from HS
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852642

LonelyDodo wrote:
Bezzy wrote:
A prime example of this being an issue is the fact that there was a detective yesterday who did this very exact thing and the results were about nine players were killed by him, not just using the health station, but from DNA from the station itself, and of course, only one of which was a T, the other eight players were all innocents, and his karma looked like complete garbage with the end result of it being about 235. Needless to say he didn't at all care, but since I've been playing, this type of thing has been acceptable, while I understand it somewhat fallen underneath most peoples radar, this definitely needs to be clarified because not only would I say it's being improperly used on the server, and it's definitely being abused by some detectives using it as some type of loophole mechanic.

Oh gee no need to name me ;_; and only like 4 of those were from HS

Actually, it wasn't you. looool
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852719

Bezzy wrote:
LonelyDodo wrote:
Bezzy wrote:
A prime example of this being an issue is the fact that there was a detective yesterday who did this very exact thing and the results were about nine players were killed by him, not just using the health station, but from DNA from the station itself, and of course, only one of which was a T, the other eight players were all innocents, and his karma looked like complete garbage with the end result of it being about 235. Needless to say he didn't at all care, but since I've been playing, this type of thing has been acceptable, while I understand it somewhat fallen underneath most peoples radar, this definitely needs to be clarified because not only would I say it's being improperly used on the server, and it's definitely being abused by some detectives using it as some type of loophole mechanic.

Oh gee no need to name me ;_; and only like 4 of those were from HS

Actually, it wasn't you. looool

Oh this must be a common issue then (:
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852720

It may be seen as an issue, but i believe the rule is fair and it is the user's error if they decide to go against the detective's orders
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852724

Kyber wrote:
It may be seen as an issue, but i believe the rule is fair and it is the user's error if they decide to go against the detective's orders
The issue that Miia primarily lists is that there is no rule regarding it currently, people just kind of assume that there is because of other - overall confusing and unspecific - rules.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852744

Kyber wrote:
It may be seen as an issue, but i believe the rule is fair and it is the user's error if they decide to go against the detective's orders
The rules about health stations are fair, however the issue with using the DNA scanner is that it does not follow them. The rule does specify that it is kosable for repeated use of a health station when warned not to. If we apply this rule to the DNA situation then the user can not possibly know if the health station was used repeatedly and on top of that the user will not have recieved any of the warnings that are needed to obey rule 2.2, as it is impossible for them to be told to stop using it when they have already stopped.
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #852898

fam who is that deserate to kill people to use a dna on a health station loool....
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #853432

Bump cus i feel this is important
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #853462

did you or any lead team not bring this up in the meeting?
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #853500

Drconor wrote:
did you or any lead team not bring this up in the meeting?
we skipped a lot of things today , i was ignored when i said i had to bring up stuff rip they were eager to get to the HA meeting ;)
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KOSing health stations 6 years 1 month ago #854238

Nick0GR wrote:
Drconor wrote:
did you or any lead team not bring this up in the meeting?
we skipped a lot of things today , i was ignored when i said i had to bring up stuff rip they were eager to get to the HA meeting ;)

well that sucks
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